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Fascism V Fascism.

misterdog

misterdog

Not the canine kind
Over the years the far left socialist dictatorship of Russia, has become described as fascism rather than communism.

The word communism has been expunged by the social chattering classes as a result of it's widely acknowledged failure.

Even in North Korea the word communism is now banned and instead the term 'family' or 'the workers party' has been adopted.

Communism in Korea - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org


After the gains of the far right in France in the recent Euro elections, president Macron has announced a snap general election to hopefully reconfirm his leadership.

This has appeared to bolster the parties of the left and far left to join forces to fight the far right.

apnews.com

France's leftist alliance leaders vow to 'extinguish the flame' of far right in upcoming elections

Leaders of France’s new leftist alliance have warned that the far right is “at the door of power.” Allied in a coalition known as the New Popular Front, they outlined their plan to prevent the surging far right from taking power in upcoming national legislative elections.
apnews.com apnews.com

Could this then be seen as a battle between fascists ?

The end result could be that the middle ground is lost and that one of the extreme groups - 'fascists' gains political power.

Life seemed so much simpler when we had communism V fascism IMO.
 
misterdog said:
Over the years the far left socialist dictatorship of Russia, has become described as fascism rather than communism.
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What? Who has been describing Putin’s far-right dictatorship as “socialism”? It couldn’t be further removed if it tried! Russia today is a far-right capitalist oligarchy. Any hint of communism ended back in the 1980s with Gorbachov and the Berlin Wall coming down. It certainly wasn’t replaced with socialism! It was basically a gangster takeover.
 
Tony L said:
What? Who has been describing Putin’s far-right dictatorship as “socialism”? It couldn’t be further removed if it tried! Russia today is a far-right capitalist oligarchy. Any hint of communism ended back in the 1980s with Gorbachov and the Berlin Wall coming down. It certainly wasn’t replaced with socialism! It was basically a gangster takeover.
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And also a transformation of individuals. Putin himself grew up in the KGB under Communism. In several of the former satellite states some of the most prominent nationalist, right-wing if you like, leaders of the post-Communist era were/are former Communist era hard-liners. All strangely fascinating....
 
Tony L said:
Who has been describing Putin’s far-right dictatorship as “socialism”?
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I used the word communism and have, for years.

He learned his 'trade' under Stalin and Lenin
Putin was born on 7 October 1952 in Leningrad, Soviet Union (now Saint Petersburg, Russia),[26] the youngest of three children of Vladimir Spiridonovich Putin (1911–1999) and Maria Ivanovna Putina (née Shelomova; 1911–1998). His grandfather, Spiridon Putin (1879–1965), was a personal cook to Vladimir Lenin and Joseph Stalin.[27][28
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Putin studied law at the Leningrad State University named after Andrei Zhdanov (now Saint Petersburg State University) in 1970 and graduated in 1975.[39] His thesis was on "The Most Favored Nation Trading Principle in International Law."[40] While there, he was required to join the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU); he remained a member until it ceased to exist in 1991.[
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In 1975, Putin joined the KGB and trained at the 401st KGB School in Okhta, Leningrad.[47][48] After training, he worked in the Second Chief Directorate (counterintelligence), before he was transferred to the First Chief Directorate, where he monitored foreigners and consular officials in Leningrad.[
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Maybe dictators just align themselves to wherever power can be attained ?

He was definitely weaned on far left socialism (communism) though.

Now defined as a fascist, by many.

Ironically his claim for the 'special military action' against Ukraine is -to fight facism...

Even more ironically after signing the Budapest agreement to protect Ukraine if it gave up it's nuclear arms.
 
misterdog said:
Maybe dictators just align themselves to wherever power can be attained ?
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Yes, that seems to be the case. No left-wing ideology survives authoritarianism. There is the horseshoe theory or whatever it is called that highlights authoritarian dictatorships end up in the same place regardless whether they started from right or left-wing ideology. Putin is vastly closer to Hitler than he ever was to Marx. As I understand it communism fell in any real conceptual sense with Stalin.

misterdog said:
He was definitely weaned on far left socialism (communism) though.
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As a member of the brutal authoritarian KGB IIRC.

misterdog said:
Now defined as a fascist, by many.
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Correctly.

PS There are countless other folk here far better educated than me who can cite proper sources etc, but that is certainly my understanding. Putin is unquestionably a far-right gangster oligarch tyrant. It is no surprise he is admired by far-right gobshites such as Trump, Farage etc.
 
Pravda said:
fascist's control most media outlets
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How many of these people have caused other people to.

Fall out of bedroom windows.

Come into contact with nerve agents from contact with door handles.

Travel in aircraft which 'fall' out of the sky.

My point is that the term fascist is so liberally (sic) used that it is 'almost' redundant.

We are lucky in this country that we have never been subject to a dictatorship that every other EU country has been.

Yet 'we' like to claim that we are.

Had anyone have been 'lucky' enough to have lived under a dictatorship, then maybe they would see the crass disregard of bandying the term fascism left, right and centre (sic) for what it is.
 
Tony L said:
Putin is unquestionably a far-right gangster oligarch tyrant
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Putin has ditched communism in favour of fascism ? in the same way that North Korea and China have also dissociated themselves away from communism.

When does a label become a dissociation ? at the end of the day they are all people we would not wish to be associated with.

Arthur Scargill was a big fan of Stalin apparently ( the one who was responsible for more deaths of 'the workers' than Hitler).
For reference see any of the links below which seem appropriate.

Tony L said:
As I understand it communism fell in any real conceptual sense with Stalin.
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So would we describe Arthur Scargill now as as a fascist ? The term is so loosely
used now that anyone with dictatorial intentions or actions seems described as thus.
 
Yank said:
One trait of fascism is to accuse your enemy of what you yourself are guilty.
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I did wonder how long it would take.

So what is your suggested alternative to capitalism, given that capitalism is considered the worst form of running the worlds economy.


Until you look at the alternatives.


Two members of our local street WhatsApp group have just been struck off from the labour party for displaying 'vote green' posters during the local elections.

That's what I call democracy, or is it a closed shop ?
 
misterdog said:
How many of these people have caused other people to.

Fall out of bedroom windows.

Come into contact with nerve agents from contact with door handles.

Travel in aircraft which 'fall' out of the sky.

My point is that the term fascist is so liberally (sic) used that it is 'almost' redundant.

We are lucky in this country that we have never been subject to a dictatorship that every other EU country has been.

Yet 'we' like to claim that we are.

Had anyone have been 'lucky' enough to have lived under a dictatorship, then maybe they would see the crass disregard of bandying the term fascism left, right and centre (sic) for what it is.
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Who knows?
They've certainly ruined many lives, and still do.
 
Fascism, and I'm thinking of the original Italian version and subsequent German Nazism, had very strong ingredients of socialism. Central economic planning, the organisation of society so everyone had a job, a home and recreational facilities. With everything under strict State control.
 
kensalriser said:
No one under 60 thinks Putin's Russia is anything to do with communism.
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I gather Stalin was a communist. The only thing that was ‘commune’ among most people was their poverty. As such I am not sure Russia would fare better if Putin was more of a communist.
 
PaulMB said:
Fascism, and I'm thinking of the original Italian version and subsequent German Nazism, had very strong ingredients of socialism. Central economic planning, the organisation of society so everyone had a job, a home and recreational facilities. With everything under strict State control.
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With fascism the rich is allowed to keep their money, with communism, not That's the only major difference I can figure out. For the average working person difference is nil. I visited both kind in the bad old days.
 
Tony L said:
What? Who has been describing Putin’s far-right dictatorship as “socialism”? It couldn’t be further removed if it tried! Russia today is a far-right capitalist oligarchy. Any hint of communism ended back in the 1980s with Gorbachov and the Berlin Wall coming down. It certainly wasn’t replaced with socialism! It was basically a gangster takeover.
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“Vulture Capitalism”
 
RJohan said:
With fascism the rich is allowed to keep their money, with communism, not That's the only major difference I can figure out. For the average working person difference is nil. I visited both kind in the bad old days.
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I'm starting to feel they were "The Good Old Days".....
 
Yank said:
One trait of fascism is to accuse your enemy of what you yourself are guilty.
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Not just fascism, we see it lower down the totalitarian scale in the UK election between two parties that share the same ideals but blame each other for the inevitable consequences of those ideals.
 
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