advertisement


European Parliament elections

Seanm said:
I don't understand what you mean by this not being about party politics. It's a party political system, in which you vote for parties. If you mean, you just want to express yourself, regardless of the consequences, then work away. But the consequence is that the Faragists will have the biggest British party in the European Parliament - which will in turn strengthen him and other Brexiteers in UK politics. You don't like Brexit, but you'll have made it harder to resist.
Click to expand...

But again, polling for Farage's party is largely similar to 2014 - he's not making any real gains, and his was the largest share last time too. The only possible way to make it feasible to vote Labour this time - and to knock Farage off his perch - is if Labour gets off the fence and make themselves electable to Remainers.

Otherwise, as has been alluded to several times a day for goodness knows how long, a vote for Labour will be construed as a vote for Brexit, and therefore voting for Farage or Labour is tantamount to the same thing. As such, this "consequence" of a Farage majority (which he has now, and did last time - so nothing is actually changing) isn't really the point.
 
SteveG said:
I understand why you don't get it, as you're a Labour right or wrong guy.

In this particular election a vote for Labour will be seen as vote in favour of Brexit and therefore little different from voting Tory, Brexit or UKIP. It really won't matter which flavour of Brexit party you actually vote for. For me I don't see what difference it makes which Brexit favouring leader has the biggest representation in the European parliament - whether that be May, Farage or Corbyn - they're all much of a muchness to me in this situation. In fact at least May and Farage aren't selling out a majority of their party supporters.
Click to expand...
I think there's a difference between customs union with close regulatory alliance and no-deal-red-tape-bonfire-kick-out-the-foreigners-f___k-everyone-BREXIT!!! but YMMV.

I'll just note that this kind if "They're literally all the same!" rhetoric in the face of very significant, substantive differences is usually seen as a hallmark of populism.
 
I think Sean has a point when he says not voting Labour will likely help the Brexit Party, but since the electorate seem so entrenched I think it's likely that most who oppose Brexit will vote for the Greens etc anyway. They just won't be able to bring themselves to vote for any Party that isn't 100% opposed to Brexit.

I can understand that, even if it may not be the right strategic move.
 
Seanm said:
I think there's a difference between customs union with close regulatory alliance and no-deal-red-tape-bonfire-kick-out-the-foreigners-f___k-everyone-BREXIT!!! but YMMV.
Click to expand...

That's a bit like saying would you rather by executed by hanging or execute by lethal injection. I don't think stopping Brexit is off the table yet, hence not at the point of meek acceptance yet. Your mileage (or at least your beloved leaders mileage) may vary of course...

If Labour came out as anti-Brexit (as they should) then Brexit would be long dead. If it does happen it'll be down to us being betrayed by Corbyn and his minions as much as anyone.
 
Seanm said:
I think there's a difference between customs union with close regulatory alliance and no-deal-red-tape-bonfire-kick-out-the-foreigners-f___k-everyone-BREXIT!!! but YMMV.
Click to expand...
Although I’m sure you appreciate there is also a big difference between Brexit including customs union with close regulatory alliance and no Brexit.
 
Seanm said:
I think there's a difference between customs union with close regulatory alliance and no-deal-red-tape-bonfire-kick-out-the-foreigners-f___k-everyone-BREXIT!!! but YMMV.
Click to expand...

There is clearly a massive difference. But for those who don'r want Brexit, that's an irrelevance.
 
farfromthesun said:
But again, polling for Farage's party is largely similar to 2014 - he's not making any real gains, and his was the largest share last time too. The only possible way to make it feasible to vote Labour this time - and to knock Farage off his perch - is if Labour gets off the fence and make themselves electable to Remainers.

Otherwise, as has been alluded to several times a day for goodness knows how long, a vote for Labour will be construed as a vote for Brexit, and therefore voting for Farage or Labour is tantamount to the same thing. As such, this "consequence" of a Farage majority (which he has now, and did last time - so nothing is actually changing) isn't really the point.
Click to expand...
No, with the Lib Dem surge Farage look like increasing their seats by a third and perhaps getting an absolute majority. That's a massive surge for a single issue party dedicated to the hardest possible Brexit. Single issue nutters (Farage) up, sensible compromisers focused on bigger picture (Labour) down. A clear message to MPs still on the fence about whether to support no deal, PV etc. But none of that matters I guess because all the same etc. Logical end point and total self own for the hard remainers.

https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1129331110436114435
 
SteveG said:
Could they? Definitely. Do they want to? Definitely not. Will they? Your guess is as good as mine.
Click to expand...
We might end up in a situation where Labour demand a vote on a Tory Brexit, with remain as an option.

Barring that, how do you stop Brexit?

I see no way.
 
Seanm said:
sensible compromisers focused on bigger picture (Labour)
Click to expand...

FFS. I think what you really mean is "naive incompetents doing the Brexiters work for them (Labour)" or "deceitful scum that don't quite want to come and say what they actually want (Labour)"
 
Marchbanks said:
Although I’m sure you appreciate there is also a big difference between Brexit including customs union with close regulatory alliance and no Brexit.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. But a massive win for a single issue hard Brexit Party and a massive defeat for a party taking a more... nuanced approach will make no Brexit less likely, IMO.
 
SteveG said:
FFS. I think what you really mean is "naive incompetents doing the Brexiters work for them (Labour)" or "deceitful scum that don't quite want to come and say what they actually want (Labour)"
Click to expand...
Measured take there, very sensible, very competent, joining all the dots.
 
maxflinn said:
Barring that, how do you stop Brexit?

I see no way.
Click to expand...

I'm still hoping it'll drag on to the point where even the Labour leadership can't ignore that Brexit no longer has a majority of public support and that therefore has to be tested either by a GE (as long as Labour doesn't still have a Brexiter at the helm) or another referendum. Sadly I do think it'll happen - and if it does it'll be Corbyn I blame. The Tories and UKIP are at least doing what their parties stand for. Corbyn's support for Brexit is a betrayal.
 
matt j said:
What happens if we end up with a second vote and it swings to 50/50 ?
Click to expand...

I suspect we'd have to go again, but in the time between referendums a few more of the elderly racist bigots will no longer be voting and therefore it'll be a Remain majority next time.
 
SteveG said:
I'm still hoping it'll drag on to the point where even the Labour leadership can't ignore that Brexit no longer has a majority of public support and that therefore has to be tested either by a GE (as long as Labour doesn't still have a Brexiter at the helm) or another referendum. Sadly I do think it'll happen - and if it does it'll be Corbyn I blame. The Tories and UKIP are at least doing what their parties stand for. Corbyn's support for Brexit is a betrayal.
Click to expand...
Corbyn is the leader, he's not a dictator. Labour policy on Brexit was thrashed out by the Party.

I don't know how it will all play out. Perhaps a GE will be needed as May won't get her deal through, and Labour will get no joy trying to get the Tories to soften their Brexit. Something will have to give, IMO.
 
SteveG said:
I suspect we'd have to go again, but in the time between referendums a few more of the elderly racist bigots will no longer be voting and therefore it'll be a Remain majority next time.
Click to expand...
Sadly, it seems the oldest generation - 80 plus - tend to be more progressive and were more likely to vote remain than their children. The elderly are set to get more bigoted.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top