advertisement


Dilemma: Klipsch Cornwall IV vs Tannoy Kensington SE

Valve rolling is an interesting subject and is not as simple as valve A is better than valve B. Due to the variability between samples of the same part number and from manufacturer to manufacturer and the low feedback usually used in valve circuits the operating points of the valves will change when the valve is changed. This will change the distortion characteristics etc. So it's entirely possible that an "inferior" valve will sound better than a Blackburn Rovers unobtanium in some circuits, but not in general.

Bit like opamps - the circuit and decoupling matters as much as the particular device.

A pal of mine mended an Audio Innovations power amp. It came with an"upgraded" Border Patrol power supply. No wonder it sounded different with the BP, it increased the main supply rail from below 400V to nearer 500V!! The 400V rated caps in the AI were not too happy either ;)
 
Matsushita 7DJ8s are excellent too, I used them instead of 6922s in my pre amp a while back, I didn't like the EH6922s at all.


I tried these in an Audio Research SP9 MkIII and thought they were decent. Then I tried a random pair of cheap Sino ECC88s that blew them out of the water.

But then ARC is a special case, they seem to think that 6DJ8s are 12AX7s.
 
So, I’m wondering Mike, has the Cary solved the issue you were experiencing? And, are you pleased and happy with the outcome?
Yes, absolutely! The system has not only the speed and rhythm that I appreciated with my solid state amps, but also the full tonal richness that I felt was missing. It sounds very "complete" now, so much so that I have absolutely no urge to do anything to improve it. It's truly sublime! :)

I probably didn't have to go as far as the Cary SLI-100, with it's 100WPC into the very efficient 102dB Cornwall. However, the fellow was local and willing to demo in my home. The others would have required more machinations, with the closest of them over an hour's drive away. Getting to preview it in your home is quite a boon!

I could have bought something else, and then flipped it if I wasn't happy, but I dislike the trials and tribulations of selling gear. That's why I have so must superfluous gear in my house right now. :rolleyes:

The guidance here in this thread was very helpful. Thank-you all!
 
Mike,

Yes, absolutely! The system has not only the speed and rhythm that I appreciated with my solid state amps, but also the full tonal richness that I felt was missing. It sounds very "complete" now, so much so that I have absolutely no urge to do anything to improve it. It's truly sublime! :)

Glad it worked out. I came to a similar conclusion / state of happiness when I got a Manley Stingray to power the Tannoy GRFs.

Every once in a while I wonder if a Leak Stereo 20 or a Leben 300 would be better, but Leak is hard to find over here and the Leben has skyrocketed in price. As has the Stingray in its new form, the Stingray II: Electric Boogaloo.

I think I'm done apart from getting an end-game turntable at some point.

Joe
 
I think I'm done apart from getting an end-game turntable at some point.
I almost never listen to my turntable, a Rega Planar 3 with Dynavector 10x4 Mk2 cartridge and Rega Aria phono stage, mostly because of the hassle of managing vinyl. It also doesn't sound anywhere near as good as my digital front ends.

It's been in my office, so I've decided to move it to the family room, where I may be more inclined to futz with the vinyl ritual. We'll see if that makes a difference. If I find myself playing records more of the time, then I might consider an upgrade. It's also through the tube amp, which may transform it. If that happens, you can guess where I'll be asking questions. ;)
 
Mike,

I almost never listen to my turntable, a Rega Planar 3 with Dynavector 10x4 Mk2 cartridge and Rega Aria phono stage, mostly because of the hassle of managing vinyl. It also doesn't sound anywhere near as good as my digital front ends.


;–)

Joe
 
Yes, absolutely! The system has not only the speed and rhythm that I appreciated with my solid state amps, but also the full tonal richness that I felt was missing. It sounds very "complete" now, so much so that I have absolutely no urge to do anything to improve it. It's truly sublime! :)

I probably didn't have to go as far as the Cary SLI-100, with it's 100WPC into the very efficient 102dB Cornwall. However, the fellow was local and willing to demo in my home. The others would have required more machinations, with the closest of them over an hour's drive away. Getting to preview it in your home is quite a boon!

I could have bought something else, and then flipped it if I wasn't happy, but I dislike the trials and tribulations of selling gear. That's why I have so must superfluous gear in my house right now. :rolleyes:

The guidance here in this thread was very helpful. Thank-you all!
Glad you're happy! If the amp runs quietly there's really no issue with too much power, and it gives plenty of headroom!
 
Yeah, I thought that would raise a few hackles. At least I have plans to improve. ;)
 
I’d be amazed if the OP was finished with his journey’;)
It could be said that one's journey is never finished until you're dead. :)

As I mentioned above, I'm moving the turntable over there, so I suppose there are options in that regard. Tube rolling might happen. And the cables are good enough, but could be better. So some small things might change, but I don't envision upsetting the apple cart.

What drives me to upgrade a system is a sense that it could be better. In this particular system, it was a realization that even though it was doing some amazing things, I knew that it was missing something. I've now attained (perhaps even surpassed) my inner expectations. It's as good as I've ever expected it to sound, as satisfying as any other system that I've auditioned throughout 25+ years of listening to gear and climbing the ladder.

I have many systems in my house. I'm still having fun fiddling with those, and also with DIY projects. So I'll keep tweaking things, but that main system has hit a major milestone. I don't have any sense that it needs to change.
 
Well I decided to take the Cary SLI-100 off his hands. It did what it needed to do, adding that last layer of texture that I knew was in the recording. It's also very good in the bass department, and perfectly good with its rhythm. My solid-state amp, an Avondale SE230, is a bit more articulate, but this tube amp is definitely a better match for the Cornwall.

It gets stupidly hot, though. I also noticed a slight bit of hiss from the Left Channel, while it's dead quiet on the right. Not a big deal, but I do wonder what causes that variation.
So now Mike you have made me jealous, jealous that I passed up on a six month old pair of Cornwall IVs a couple of months ago (I should have listened to my wife who said I should buy them!). My Fortes and valves sound like nothing else I've heard, but I bet your Cornwalls sound even better. And like you've found valves and heritage Klipsch are such a wonderful pairing.
 
So now Mike you have made me jealous, jealous that I passed up on a six month old pair of Cornwall IVs a couple of months ago (I should have listened to my wife who said I should buy them!). My Fortes and valves sound like nothing else I've heard, but I bet your Cornwalls sound even better. And like you've found valves and heritage Klipsch are such a wonderful pairing.
Fyi, I heard the Forte before the Cornwall, and didn't love it, but sensed something special. I've also heard the La Scala, and although it did some things amazingly well, I felt it was too light in the bass department.

The Cornwall hit a sweet spot.

I should mention that the Jubilee is better, but there's no way I'll have those in my house. ;)
 
I actually trialled the Fortes in my house before deciding on the Cornwalls. Certainly I think with the lambswool grills they look cuter and I think even sounded with better bass in my room which has a bass suck out. However I opted for the Cornwalls and after upgrading the crossovers and damping the horns couldn't be happier. Bass is a little light but very tuneful, which is definitely a room artefact not the speakers
 
I actually trialled the Fortes in my house before deciding on the Cornwalls. Certainly I think with the lambswool grills they look cuter and I think even sounded with better bass in my room which has a bass suck out. However I opted for the Cornwalls and after upgrading the crossovers and damping the horns couldn't be happier. Bass is a little light but very tuneful, which is definitely a room artefact not the speakers
Believe me, my wife would have been happier with smaller speakers (or preferably no speakers), and I also prefer that grill on the Forte.

WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) seems to be a common challenge. Fortunately, my wife realizes how important the system is, so she's quite accepting in that regard (even though she moans and rolls her eyes regularly). The bigger challenge with her is that she finds music (in general) to be over stimulating, so I can't be going whole hog all the time. If she listened to music quietly just once a month, then she would be satisfied, so she's actually very flexible, given her predisposition.

As for those mods you did to the Cornwall, what material did you use for damping, and what parts did you change in the crossover. Do you happen to recall the values?
 
Hi Mike,
Your wife sounds suspiciously like my wife! One difference being that my master sound monoblocks are actually hers! I was going to sell them to raise some cash a few years back and because she loves the Ferrari looks she said I've got to have them and bought them off me!
Here's the link to the crossover circuit. https://community.klipsch.com/uploa...CB.jpeg.efecceeec8d4f0ac4688c907f335784f.jpeg
I used a path 30 ohm resistor for that main resistor. Like most folk I only changed series capacitors no shunts. So 7UF for the mid, 2.75 and 2.25 for the tweeter. I used ODAM capacitors for all. Others have bypassed with VCAP Teflon and reported even better results. I would believe these having done that trick elsewhere on my Hi-Fi. For damping the horns there are good instructions on line EG YouTube. I used car panel damping bitumen aluminium backed from Amazon which was pretty reasonable. Hope that's helpful, David
 
Hi Mike,
Your wife sounds suspiciously like my wife! One difference being that my master sound monoblocks are actually hers! I was going to sell them to raise some cash a few years back and because she loves the Ferrari looks she said I've got to have them and bought them off me!
Here's the link to the crossover circuit. https://community.klipsch.com/uploa...CB.jpeg.efecceeec8d4f0ac4688c907f335784f.jpeg
I used a path 30 ohm resistor for that main resistor. Like most folk I only changed series capacitors no shunts. So 7UF for the mid, 2.75 and 2.25 for the tweeter. I used ODAM capacitors for all. Others have bypassed with VCAP Teflon and reported even better results. I would believe these having done that trick elsewhere on my Hi-Fi. For damping the horns there are good instructions on line EG YouTube. I used car panel damping bitumen aluminium backed from Amazon which was pretty reasonable. Hope that's helpful, David
Thanks, David. That's exactly what I needed!
 
Hello.
Richness of timbre can be obtained by applying several methods at once. I think you should try AN ISIS LX168 or Cardas Golden Reference speaker cables. These cables can work wonders.
For amplification, I recommend you Manley preamplifiers in conjunction with the Parasound JC1. It's a slick and reliable solution. I would also try a vintage Braun CSV12 or CSV60 PushPull.
I hope to own a Cornwall III as well. These speakers are beautiful.
 
Hello.
Richness of timbre can be obtained by applying several methods at once. I think you should try AN ISIS LX168 or Cardas Golden Reference speaker cables. These cables can work wonders.
For amplification, I recommend you Manley preamplifiers in conjunction with the Parasound JC1. It's a slick and reliable solution. I would also try a vintage Braun CSV12 or CSV60 PushPull.
I hope to own a Cornwall III as well. These speakers are beautiful.
Thank you chiming in. The Cary SLI-100 definitely gave me what I needed, so I have no longer have an itch to scratch. :)

I would consider trying a lower powered amplifier, assuming it have me what the Cary did and cost no more. I would also love it if it wasn't tubes, as the need to fiddle with those still irks me, and the heat is crazy.

As for speaker cables that cost more than the amp... That's never happening! I'm quite happy with the Canare Star Quad that I have.
 
As I've mentioned above, the Cary SLI-100 with the Klipsch Cornwall IV is a magical combination. Everything sounds massively enjoyable, even poorer recordings. I'll admit, though, that I'm suffering from tube anxiety.
  • When will they start to sound crappy? This happens very gradually, so when is it not good enough?
  • Is it time to check the bias? I've read that a monthly check is best, which seems ludicrous.
  • Will a failing tube cause damage in the amplifier, requiring a trip to the shop?
Some here on the forum have indicated that I won't have to change tubes for many years, if not decades. The Cary manual says that the power tubes (KT150) should last 3-4 years. Paul McGowan from PS Audio changes his tubes every year. :eek:

The four KT150 tubes would cost CAD$800. The six input and driver tubes would be another $200-400, depending on what I buy.

I originally bought the Cary, because the seller was local and could bring it by for an audition in my house with my speakers. Most here said the amp was overkill for my needs, but I've been ecstatic with the results.

One of the other amps I had considered was the PrimaLuna EVO 100, but it was two hours drive from here, so not as easy to audition. Well lo and behold, a PrimaLuna EVO 400 (the top of the line) appeared nearby. One of its features is adaptive auto bias, which not only adjusts the bias, it supposedly continues to do so while music is playing. The auto bias also drives the tubes easier somehow, so purportedly extends tube life by 3-4 times. If a tube fails, it automatically puts the amp into safe mode, and indicates the bad tube with an LED. That would go a long way to ameliorating my tube anxiety.

It also does a cool parlor trick: it can switch between "Ultra Linear" (Class AB) and "Triode" (Single Ended Class A) with the push of a button on the remote. It's like two amps in one!

I arranged with the fellow to bring it over last night. The cost of the PrimaLuna is almost the same as the Cary, so I had high hopes that it would sound as good, while adding the tube maintenance features.

We sampled a few tracks with the Cary, to set a benchmark. Then we switched over to the PrimaLuna. I was rather surprised that it took a few minutes to go through its startup process, before we were able to play music. The seller also indicated that it took 30-45 minutes to really wake up. (FYI, the Cary sounds great within a couple of minutes, so this was already a negative for the PrimaLuna.) So, we started to play music, with me reserving judgement until full warm-up finished.

I should add that the amp is just two years old, and the seller replaced the two inner input tubes with expensive Mullards, which should boost things.

Out of the box I was underwhelmed. All of the dynamics that I loved were gone. The bass was deeper, but exaggerated and flabby. There was no sparkle in the presentation. The seller felt that the PL sounded less colored, but I've never perceived the Cary as sounding colored. It was still early, though, so I patiently waited for the magic to happen.

...And it never happened! :( It improved a bit, but we shut things down at the 30 minute mark. Completely uninvolving! It was clearly no match for the Cary. And this lack of engagement was even worse at lower volumes. It was also nowhere as good as my Avondale SE230 and Neurochrome Modulus-686 transistor amps. Overall, a big failure.

In retrospect, if I had tried the lesser PrimaLuna EVO 100, I would have sworn that tubes were awful.

I hooked the Cary back up after they left, and was relieved to hear the magic return. It made me grateful for my luck with encountering it first. So much of this hobby is trial and error, chasing that special presentation that makes your spine tingle and your heart melt.

It reinforces the message that reviews are great, but only personal experience will tell you whether you're going to like something.
 
Last edited:
@Mike Hanson Pleased your latest demo proved to you what an excellent amplifier you purchased. I'm no valve expert, being fairly new to them myself, but from what I can gather, bias shouldn't drift much and maybe you should check every 6-12 months. I'll assume the bias was checked when you purchased the amplifier so you could check after a couple of months for peace of mind.
 


advertisement


Back
Top