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degradation of magnet in Troika MC cartridge???

J

jeremy roebuck

Active Member
I'm being told by a dealer that, notwithstanding the diamond & cantilever being in good fettle, the magnets in my (old but rebuilt) Troika have probably lost power & I should ££££££ etc.

True or BS?

Many thanks
Jeremy
 
Its BS. If the magnets did actually lose flux all that would happen is that the output voltage would drop a bit so you may need the volume up a tiny bit.

Cheers,

DV
 
You have to look at it from the dealers point of view, cos they make no profit out of retips etc. and they will always advise to buy new; I still have my original Troika, and by most standards it's ancient!
 
The Troika (and Karma) was notorious for its suspension degrading (as was the Koetsu Black). If the suspension has gone then it is a total rebuild. Magnets degrading ... PAH!!

Nic P
 
Strangely I know several people with 20 year old Troikas still on the first suspension, if anything their suspension has an excellent rep for longevity being on of the earlier carts to use a fully synthetic rubber for the suspension.

The OP should measure the voltage out of a known phonostasge from a 0db test track and use that to calculate the carts output vs original spec and hence the magnetic flux. Then call the dealer out on it if required.
 
The idea that the magnets have lost their strength is utter rubbish.

-------

I have two Troikas, a Karma and two Asakas - the suspension rides at the same height on all of them. The Troikas have both been rebuilt and the output from both is the same.
 
Probably because the sealing strip has hardened with age or the door has sagged a bit and so doesn't align as well - both common fridge problems. The magnetic strip isn't any less magnetic though.

Just because lots of fish are silver it doesn't follow that anything silver is probably a fish.
 
Indeed, we`d really like a new bigger one but I hate to get rid of anything that still works.
Hotpoint from the days when not everything was made abroad.
 
sq225917 said:
Strangely I know several people with 20 year old Troikas still on the first suspension, if anything their suspension has an excellent rep for longevity being on of the earlier carts to use a fully synthetic rubber for the suspension.

The OP should measure the voltage out of a known phonostasge from a 0db test track and use that to calculate the carts output vs original spec and hence the magnetic flux. Then call the dealer out on it if required.
Click to expand...

Am I thinking of the Karma? I remember Peter T-D at the late West Midlands Audio moaning about collapsing suspensions on Linn moving coils.

Nic P
 
Once again we have unequivocal opinion masquerading as fact without any evidence .

I do know the answer to this question , however I do note that magnets can lose power[force] and factors include temperature , storage in close proximity to others and electrical current exposure .

What I don't know and im sure the o/p would appreciate is a proper explanation as to why the theoretical possibility of magnets losing power need not concern him vis-à-vis the evaluation of his troika .

Of more concern is that big fat aluminium cantilever, but that a different story ;)
 
Joking aside, this whole premise that magnets have 'gone off' is obviously utter rubbish and either a pathetic attempt to persuade you to buy a new cartridge or just clueless nonsense. Think about it, Q/ how many 20+ year old speakers have failed because their magnets have weakened off? A/ - none of them. Q/ how many electric motors fail because the magnets weaken? A/ - none of them!

If the magnet in your cartridge actually had lost any strength the apparent volume would have dropped off a cliff. The output is only 0.2mv as it is, so the MC gain is vast. If it dropped even a tiny bit, because of the way the amp scales up the output, the proportionate loss would be blindingly obvious!
 
To play devils advocate - speaker and motor magnets are much much bigger .

And your post once again uses rhetoric to convince , not totally ineffectually but not conclusively . If magnets lose force[ which it appears they do theoretically] , they must have something like a half life and an explanation along the lines that the half life of troika magnets is 24,000 years and thus the dealer is talking bollocks would be better.
 
Gerald said:
Once again we have unequivocal opinion masquerading as fact without any evidence .

I do know the answer to this question , however I do note that magnets can lose power[force] and factors include temperature , storage in close proximity to others and electrical current exposure .

What I don't know and im sure the o/p would appreciate is a proper explanation as to why the theoretical possibility of magnets losing power need not concern him vis-à-vis the evaluation of his troika .

Of more concern is that big fat aluminium cantilever, but that a different story ;)
Click to expand...

Gerald, you love to pull out this 'proper explanation' rubbish - if you have done enough research to make your earlier points, do a bit more and find your own explanation - there is nothing obscure, hypothetical or theory based around this.

Yes temperature can alter a magnet, but assuming the OP hasn't placed his cartridge in an oven then it is not a problem - the central heating, strong sunlight or a cold room are not profound enough to make the slightest difference.

Yes shock can alter a magnet, but assuming the OP hasn't been bashing his cartridge repeatedly with a lump hammer that won't be an issue either.

And finally, yes you can altere a magnet by placing it in proximity to another magnet, but the OP would certainly know if he had ever been in close enough proximity to the strength of magnet required and even then the chances he had his cartridge in his pocket seem slim.

As you are so keen on proof and not theory, how about you provide some regarding your cantilever 'theory' - what evidence is there that this is any area for 'concern' - or is this thread just an excuse to troll?
 
Ynwoan alas your default persona appears to be belligerence .

The o/p asked a question .

He was offered half a dozen unequivocal explanations .

I pointed out that the explanations weren't unequivocal and it was theoretically an issue .

Its not trolling ,its the stuff of forums FFS , If you cant answer the question just say so , its not a crime .

You and others are also seeking to calls this persons dealer a liar and thus effect his business so please put up or STFU . Ta .

As for cantilevers - Strength and rigidity is better , boron is stronger and more rigid than aluminium .

And finally , "proper explanation rubbish" :D:D, this is hifi the home of foo , the more proper explanations the better and this is just the kinds of issue that can be explained properly and put to bed ,you seem to want people to just believe what you say or you sulk .
 
The magnetic end of my upholsters hammer lost some of its magnetism, but stroking it with a hard disk magnet restored it to better than new condition.

Pete

p.s. :D
 
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