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Dark Side Of The Moon 50th Anniversary

Tony L said:
With the Japanese ‘black triangle’ DSOTM you need to read the matrix on the inner silver label next to the label, if the letters ‘TO’ are there it is a later issue and has a totally different mastering (same as the black text on silver disk UK issue). I have one of these and it’s only worth £30 or so. It is not a great mastering (rather bright).

PS I’m pretty sure there isn’t a ‘black triangle’ of WYWH. The early Japanese copies were CBS and a 35dp catalogue so black disk with a silver left side. I found the J for EU ‘black face’ of WYWH next to the DSOTM I mentioned above and that is another truly superb sounding CD. It is why my Analogue Productions SACD is in the pfm shop right now!
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Unless Japan used different source tapes for mastering, the value of an early DSOTM is, IMHO, just because it's a 35DP / Black Triangle. All early releases were not from the master tapes but from a 15ips Dolby copy. It could be the case as "TO" versions have "Ticket to Ride" at the end and the "non-TO" doesn't.

AIUI, the "TO" / "non-TO" relates to black face Harvest 'Japan for Europe' discs. All black triangles were pressed at Toshiba and were not the 'bright' version.


As for WYWH, no black triangle, just the boggo CBS 1/5 silver (gold on the first press), 4/5 black, and as early as you can get CD-wise (1982 :cool:). £1300 will get you a copy. Not worth it, IMHO.
 
Seeker_UK said:
Unless Japan used different source tapes for mastering, the value of an early DSOTM is, IMHO, just because it's a 35DP / Black Triangle.
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They did, I suspect the quiet pre-emphasis mastering is from the vinyl master tape. It is certainly *very* different.

Seeker_UK said:
AIUI, the "TO" / "non-TO" relates to black face Harvest 'Japan for Europe' discs. All black triangles were pressed at Toshiba and were not the 'bright' version.
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Not true, the ‘no-TO’ and ‘TO’ ‘black triangles’ are totally different. The ‘non-TO’ having the very quiet pre-emphasis master (which sounds superb) and the ‘TO’ being much louder and brighter and having the later mastering identical to the UK ‘silver face’ issue. This is very obsessively documented on the Pink Floyd Archives website and the Steve Hoffman site. There are actually some samples on there. I’ve proved it myself too as I have the first issue ‘black face’ (non-TO), a ‘TO’ ‘black triangle’ and there is a silver-face UK in the shop. The latter two are identical and very different to the former (as all the online documentation suggests). The ‘non-TO’ is certainly the digital mastering you want IMHO. It is the one that sounds ‘right’ if you grew up with the UK vinyl.

PS I’m out cycling at present, but I’ll post pics and links later.
 
Tony L said:
They did, I suspect the quiet pre-emphasis mastering is from the vinyl master tape. It is certainly *very* different.
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The SH forum would appear split on whether it is pre-emph or mastering accounting for the difference.

Tony L said:
Not true, the ‘no-TO’ and ‘TO’ ‘black triangles’ are totally different. The ‘non-TO’ having the very quiet pre-emphasis master (which sounds superb) and the ‘TO’ being much louder and brighter and having the later mastering identical to the UK ‘silver face’ issue. This is very obsessively documented on the Pink Floyd Archives website and the Steve Hoffman site. There are actually some samples on there. I’ve proved it myself too as I have the first issue ‘black face’ (non-TO), a ‘TO’ ‘black triangle’ and there is a silver-face UK in the shop. The latter two are identical and very different to the former (as all the online documentation suggests). The ‘non-TO’ is certainly the digital mastering you want IMHO. It is the one that sounds ‘right’ if you grew up with the UK vinyl.

PS I’m out cycling at present, but I’ll post pics and links later.
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I thought that there were no "non-TO" black triangles.
 
Seen them live several times, Roger Waters too and have had most of the releases but #UKPFE did an amazing rendition of many the tracks last Tuesday. Standing ovation for several minutes.
 
Thanks @Tony L and @Seeker_UK interesting stuff, I'll take a look later and if I can find them (still packed in boxes from moving house) and report back. I do know my early DOTM is nicer sounding than the much later remaster to my ears.
 
£19 for double vinyl seems like a good price, so I have pre-ordered from the link too (you're welcome Tony) - although just realised I do have it on CD as part of the Immersion box. Much as I'd also like this 50th box too, I cant justify £250... I think the band should listen to 'Money' again
 
Seeker_UK said:
I thought that there were no "non-TO" black triangles.
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The one I linked as LOLprice on Discogs up thread is the ‘non-TO’. If you look a little later down the list (pre-select CD and Japan to make life easier) you’ll find the ‘TO’ version that is worth a fraction of the price (about £30). They look just the same aside from the matrix, but sound totally different!
 
Tony L said:
The one I linked as LOLprice on Discogs up thread is the ‘non-TO’. If you look a little later down the list (pre-select CD and Japan to make life easier) you’ll find the ‘TO’ version that is worth a fraction of the price (about £30). They look just the same aside from the matrix, but sound totally different!
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SLightly OT, but I'm still after the Japan-only mastered ASOS CD. They're quite a rarity but never stupid money.
 
Engels said:
£19 for double vinyl seems like a good price, so I have pre-ordered from the link too (you're welcome Tony) - although just realised I do have it on CD as part of the Immersion box. Much as I'd also like this 50th box too, I cant justify £250... I think the band should listen to 'Money' again
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The link takes me to a single disc album, which it mentions several times. The track listing is split into Disc 1 and Disc 2 which I suspect are just side 1 and side 2.
 
In terms of sq, how does the 2016 remaster compare to a 70s edition?
 
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Here are the three CDs I have to hand (the silver-face is in the shop). The ‘black face’ is unquestionably ‘the one’, almost certainly the quietest CD I own, the level really is feeble, but it sounds how it should to my ears, very like original UK vinyl. The ‘TO’ black-triangle and UK silver-face are identical. Exactly the same mastering, which isn’t bad, but it does have a spike in the treble which doesn’t sit well with me.

Seeker_UK said:
SLightly OT, but I'm still after the Japan-only mastered ASOS CD. They're quite a rarity but never stupid money.
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I don’t know that one at all. World market Floyd confuses the hell out of me, e.g. why are the first issue Japanese DSOTM and Meddle (also available as a black triangle) on EMI/Harvest, but WYWH CBS/Sony? I think the same is true in the USA too, though the EMI stuff is Capitol there. I know the ultra-collectable WYWH is a CBS with only two tracks, but I can’t remember much more than that. The Japan for UK black-face (label looks the same as the DSOTM in my pic and has a black cover pic like the sticker on the shrink of original vinyl) sounds superb. Again exactly right to these ears, so I’m done there.

As for ASFOS I’ve got ‘70s ‘two-box EMI’ UK Columbia vinyl and the UK silver-face CD. I don’t think I’ve even played the CD, I just filed it away when I found it for a quid or two as I’m trying to get a good early set of CDs. Is the Japanese CD you refer to mono or stereo?

PS I’ve just stuck the ‘black face’ up against my A10/B9 (correction from upthread) UK vinyl. I am now convinced this CD is taken from the vinyl cutting master, they sound unbelievably close. So close I don’t think I’d be able to tell them apart blind. May well be the closest vinyl vs. CD comparison I’ve ever heard.
 
Tony L said:
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Here are the three CDs I have to hand (the silver-face is in the shop). The ‘black face’ is unquestionably ‘the one’, almost certainly the quietest CD I own, the level really is feeble, but it sounds how it should to my ears, very like original UK vinyl. The ‘TO’ black-triangle and UK silver-face are identical. Exactly the same mastering, which isn’t bad, but it does have a spike in the treble which doesn’t sit well with me.



I don’t know that one at all. World market Floyd confuses the hell out of me, e.g. why are the first issue Japanese DSOTM and Meddle (also available as a black triangle) on EMI/Harvest, but WYWH CBS/Sony? I think the same is true in the USA too, though the EMI stuff is Capitol there. I know the ultra-collectable WYWH is a CBS with only two tracks, but I can’t remember much more than that. The Japan for UK black-face (label looks the same as the DSOTM in my pic and has a black cover pic like the sticker on the shrink of original vinyl) sounds superb. Again exactly right to these ears, so I’m done there.

As for ASFOS I’ve got ‘70s ‘two-box EMI’ UK Columbia vinyl and the UK silver-face CD. I don’t think I’ve even played the CD, I just filed it away when I found it for a quid or two as I’m trying to get a good early set of CDs. Is the Japanese CD you refer to mono or stereo?

PS I’ve just stuck the ‘black face’ up against my A10/B9 (correction from upthread) UK vinyl. I am now convinced this CD is taken from the vinyl cutting master, they sound unbelievably close. So close I don’t think I’d be able to tell them apart blind. May well be the closest vinyl vs. CD comparison I’ve ever heard.
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Tony, is there an identifier code on the black face DSOTM CD that can be used to differentiate it from other DSOTM CD masterings in an online search if a photo of the CD face is not available?
 
ToTo Man said:
Tony, is there an identifier code on the black face DSOTM CD that can be used to differentiate it from other DSOTM CD masterings in an online search if a photo of the CD face is not available?
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The biggest clue is no barcode and (unless it has been changed-out) a smooth-sided case. That tells it apart from the UK silver-face which is very similar otherwise.

It gets even more bonkers complicated/geeky in that within the subset of Japan for UK ‘black face’ DSOTM you can apparently have both ‘non-TO’ and ‘TO’ matrixes, and get this, they are both the same (Sony) mastering, i.e. both the same as the first crazy valuable Japanese ‘black triangle’ ‘non-TO’. Details here on Pink Floyd Archives. My copy is the first ‘non-TO’ issue.

You need to be wary of other nationalities too, e.g. I’m pretty sure the West German ‘black face’ is the same as the ‘TO’ ‘black triangle’ and ‘silver-face’ UK, i.e. not the quiet pre-emphasis ‘non-TO’ mastering.

PS For clarity: subjectively there is absolutely no way in hell anyone could confuse the ‘black triangle’ ‘non-TO’ with the ‘TO’ (same as UK silver-face). The latter is about 5x louder and way brighter, i.e. if you swapped between them without adjusting the volume you’d be buying new speakers and likely ears!

PPS My ‘black triangle’ is this one (PFA). This site is very good as it gives levels, so you can see it appears to be the same as the UK silver face (it is) and also the German black-face.
 
Over at SHF people are saying that the live DSOTM on vinyl has been edited to fit on a single disk… I can’t see the proof of this but, listening to a boot version of it now, I’m not surprised as Side two would be very nearly 30 mins long in its unedited form (though they managed it on the boot version I have…!)
 
When I found the gig on YouTube I was wondering how it would fit (one of the uploads has time-stamps). I’ll take dynamic range over an edit every time, though I’d not have complained if they split it to a double (maybe with an encore track).
 
I need to check what I have, it’s mind boggling how many versions there are of this record. I think I have a pretty early press.
 
So can I ask which is the best new version of DSOTM to get? Is the current remastered any good?
I have an old 1973 copy so would the latest Amazon offering be any good?
 
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