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Dacs Again

This has been an very interesting read and timely too. My vintage Audiolab MDAC has failed and Audiolab recommend the MDAC+ (obviously). There's a discount, a trade-in, P&P is included and engineer time too - £549.

The MDAC was used for CDs (95% use) and a bit of streaming.

Could a more modern design outperform the MDAC+ ?

Views ?

thanks Richard
 
misterdog said:
Which would show in the measures, it doesn't.
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I pretty sure that’s why the OP used the term “seemed”.

I only have Topping DACs, never tried the DX3Pro, but neither of my two could be accused of being “dark”. One stock (DX7 Pro), one not (D90). I usually like dark, and Wadias are my point of reference , but that doesn’t stop me liking the presentation of either of Toppings. They’re not what some would describe as “analogue” sounding though so this may the subjective difference here.
 
bbbiker800 said:
Could a more modern design outperform the MDAC+ ?
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Outmeasure, probably. Outperform though, that’s more subjective. I lived with a Q-Daq for a while, until a few more revealing amplifiers came along. I couldn’t live with what it did at the top end, and once I’d heard it, it was always there. I’d been using it as a headphone amp happily till then.
 
Perhaps also one’s wallet, although for me the bias should swing the other way: I thought the Topping would disappoint but it doesn’t. It also happens to have the exact features I wanted. I remain baffled since I really don’t believe the ASR measurements tell the whole story.
 
sq225917 said:
And your eyes....
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One might think, but I'm my case, it's sort of the opposite:
  • In the case of my office system, I'm not looking at it, so I don't care how it looks.
  • In the family room, it would be nice if it looked nice, but it's also stuck in the corner, mostly out of sight.
  • If possible, I turn off the LEDs and displays, so the gear doesn't draw attention to itself.
  • When I owned Naim gear, I appreciated its understated appearance.
  • I just got Klipsch Cornwall IV's, which are horrendously massive.
So the looks are not something I look for. ;)
 
Alex S said:
Perhaps also one’s wallet, although for me the bias should swing the other way: I thought the Topping would disappoint but it doesn’t.
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There is no doubt that brand/price snobbery can run so deep that many are blithely oblivious to how much it influences their choices ... and effects their perception of products and their function (or lack of it).
I was taught from an early age that buying cheap was the path of the fool and that higher cost always equated to higher quality.

Sometimes I'm sure its even true .......
 
miktec said:
There is no doubt that brand/price snobbery can run so deep that many are blithely oblivious to how much it influences their choices ... and effects their perception of products and their function (or lack of it).
I was taught from an early age that buying cheap was the path of the fool and that higher cost always equated to higher quality.

Sometimes I'm sure its even true .......
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Absolutely applicable with many things. I'll often spend more for quality. However, I also have lots of cheap stuff that's "good enough" for the purpose. For example, I have an SMSL QS Pro DAC integrated driving a Dayton Audio Copperhead speaker kit in my kitchen.

It probably measures terribly. :D
 
timpy said:
Outmeasure, probably. Outperform though, that’s more subjective. I lived with a Q-Daq for a while, until a few more revealing amplifiers came along. I couldn’t live with what it did at the top end, and once I’d heard it, it was always there. I’d been using it as a headphone amp happily till then.
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I had a Q-Dac for a while, trying out the various filters drove me nuts initially so I gave up and left it on the last one I had used.
In the end I got rid because I couldn't get on with the headphone output ... too brittle at the top end for me as well ;)
 
Del monaco said:
It’s a shame when ASR make people doubt what they have. Do listeners get rid of gear they have loved because ASR are horrified by the measurements?
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I don't have much faith in ASR findings TBH - not because I am anti-objectivist (far from it)
I have a couple of headphone amps I got once for a personal bake-off and have yet to sell on (a Topping and one from JDS)
Both have had good reviews from a decent range of sources (including 'ordinary' users) and are in ASR's 'top league'

I found both mediocre compared to an ageing Musical Fidelity V Can I have (the one with the ugly grafix).
The latter lost out to an RME in the end ..........
 
miktec said:
I don't have much faith in ASR findings TBH.
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I have a few things I would agree with them on and a few I would disagree on. honestly some of the ones that measured bad sounded pretty good. There's a crown that measures similar to a bad one I liked. I might give it a try :)
 
The problem with measurements is that they don't use signals that represent the varying complexity of music, and even more importantly, they don't measure how our brains respond to those varying sonic elements.

Note that studios often use Exciters to make things sound more palatable. Yes, they add distortion, and the listener perceives it as better!!!

And tubes add pleasant distortion for many audiophiles.

So I don't really care if it measures well, or has 0.0000001% distortion. I care only if I like the way it sounds and makes me happy.
 
Mike Hanson said:
The problem with measurements is that they don't use signals that represent the varying complexity of music, and even more importantly, they don't measure how our brains respond to those varying sonic elements.

Note that studios often use Exciters to make things sound more palatable. Yes, they add distortion, and the listener perceives it as better!!!

And tubes add pleasant distortion for many audiophiles.

So I don't really care if it measures well, or has 0.0000001% distortion. I care only if I like the way it sounds and makes me happy.
Click to expand...
A lot of the Pass labs stuff measures like crap in a lab. however Nelson Pass added second order distortion on purpose because people liked it more.
 
miktec said:
I don't have much faith in ASR findings TBH - not because I am anti-objectivist (far from it)
I have a couple of headphone amps I got once for a personal bake-off and have yet to sell on (a Topping and one from JDS)
Both have had good reviews from a decent range of sources (including 'ordinary' users) and are in ASR's 'top league'

I found both mediocre compared to an ageing Musical Fidelity V Can I have (the one with the ugly grafix).
The latter lost out to an RME in the end ..........
Click to expand...
If you like and enjoy the sound, measurements are pretty irrelevant. The issue I have with ASR is that that slight differences seem to condemn an often popular product.The fact is that most of these differences will not be heard or recognised at home. It’s a classic case of, ‘I’ve got a load of very expensive measurement devices and I’m going to use them!’.
 
Returning to the Topping, I’m unimpressed with it as a headphone amplifier, and here ASR lose me since they’re concerned almost exclusively with power. Sure. any amp has to be able to drive the headphones or speakers attached to it but it’s surety more complex than that. Are headphones different to speakers in this respect? Actually, I’m not sure what ASR’s view of power amplifiers is, is it that with the same specs they sound the same?
 
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