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Cyclists to be awarded equality with motorists.

It's rubbish to say that car design does not affect driver behaviour. E.g. read the section 'Psychology':
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_sport_utility_vehicles

And note:
"Gladwell concluded that when a driver feels unsafe when driving a vehicle, it makes the vehicle safer. When a driver feels safe when driving, the vehicle becomes less safe.["
I don’t disagree, however I’m just wondering why that doesn’t work with cyclists zooming past vehicles on the inside that might turn left, bombing through red lights and weaving around pedestrians. :D Maybe, just maybe the type that does these things are morons whether ‘in control’ of a bike or any car.
 
What’s more important? Revenge or harm reduction? Maybe the resources of justice should focus on reducing the 1000 or so people killed very year by cars, before they start worrying about the 1 pedestrian killed every 3 years or so by bicycles?
I would say that equal treatment and fairness before the law is at least as important as either of those.
 
It's rubbish to say that car design does not affect driver behaviour. E.g. read the section 'Psychology':
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_sport_utility_vehicles

And note:
"Gladwell concluded that when a driver feels unsafe when driving a vehicle, it makes the vehicle safer. When a driver feels safe when driving, the vehicle becomes less safe.["
Of course. We all know that there would be fewer collisions if we all had to drive cars with a big spike in the steering wheel and no seatbelt. Nobody would get past 20mph.
 
I don’t disagree, however I’m just wondering why that doesn’t work with cyclists zooming past vehicles on the inside that might turn left, bombing through red lights and weaving around pedestrians. :D Maybe, just maybe the type that does these things are morons whether ‘in control’ of a bike or any car.

It does.... but only if the cyclist has a brain!
 
Does anybody have any breakdown on the stats for cyclists killed on the roads? I’m thinking about for how many of them were the riders to some degree at fault - the obvious cases being overrun by a lorry while turning left, or being T-boned by traffic after jumping a red light. My point being that in such cases, it’s right and fair that the driver doesn’t carry the can, so the presumption on here that all drivers who kill a cyclist or pedestrian are culpable and a lenient sentence is inexcusable bears some closer examination.
 
Does anybody have any breakdown on the stats for cyclists killed on the roads? I’m thinking about for how many of them were the riders to some degree at fault - the obvious cases being overrun by a lorry while turning left, or being T-boned by traffic after jumping a red light. My point being that in such cases, it’s right and fair that the driver doesn’t carry the can, so the presumption on here that all drivers who kill a cyclist or pedestrian are culpable and a lenient sentence is inexcusable bears some closer examination.

Stack of stats here, but it won't necessarily answer the entirety of your question. It does give some insight into reasons for various incidents though.

Reported road casualties in Great Britain: pedal cycle factsheet, 2020
 
Thanks, that’s interesting even though it doesn’t provide an answer to my main question. But it does seem to suggest that in a significant proportion of KSI accidents, the cyclist’s actions were at least a contributory factor, and quite possibly the main factor in a proportion of them. Which would back up my point that you mustn’t assume that the driver deserves severe punishment in all cases.
 
Thanks, that’s interesting even though it doesn’t provide an answer to my main question. But it does seem to suggest that in a significant proportion of KSI accidents, the cyclist’s actions were at least a contributory factor, and quite possibly the main factor in a proportion of them. Which would back up my point that you mustn’t assume that the driver deserves severe punishment in all cases.

On a point of pedantry the use of the word ‘accident’ is, IMV, a little misleading. Most ‘collisions’ that occur on roads are avoidable. There actually are very few circumstances where a collision would be viewed as a genuine accident. Investigating, apportioning liability, and prosecuting is a different matter.

:p:D
 
On a point of pedantry the use of the word ‘accident’ is, IMV, a little misleading. Most ‘collisions’ that occur on roads are avoidable. There actually are very few circumstances where a collision would be viewed as a genuine accident. Investigating, apportioning liability, and prosecuting is a different matter.

:p:D
Point taken, I guess it’s popular usage rather than terminologically correct. Will try harder… ;)
 
Thanks, that’s interesting even though it doesn’t provide an answer to my main question. But it does seem to suggest that in a significant proportion of KSI accidents, the cyclist’s actions were at least a contributory factor, and quite possibly the main factor in a proportion of them. Which would back up my point that you mustn’t assume that the driver deserves severe punishment in all cases.

I think they do, the stats linked state that out of 25,279 cyclist fatalities or serious injuries. 10,812 were the fault of the cyclist and 14,466 were the fault of the other party.

But you can find far more detailed data at the DFTs stats report page here.
 
Does anybody have any breakdown on the stats for cyclists killed on the roads? I’m thinking about for how many of them were the riders to some degree at fault - the obvious cases being overrun by a lorry while turning left, or being T-boned by traffic after jumping a red light. My point being that in such cases, it’s right and fair that the driver doesn’t carry the can, so the presumption on here that all drivers who kill a cyclist or pedestrian are culpable and a lenient sentence is inexcusable bears some closer examination.
In the '90s when fighting against anti motorbike legislation, the stats in this country indicated that nearly 70% of collisions involving motorbikes and cars were the fault of car drivers. I fell off my bike once, due to the new to me bike having old and hard tyres. I have had 3 car/bike collisions, and in every case the driver was prosecuted. The only other collision was where a cyclist rode out of an alley into my path and snapped my finger. He and his two friends then tried to mug me!
 
29df93bf1fc0c4c9d7f60e1bb90cdfb9.jpg
 
On a point of pedantry the use of the word ‘accident’ is, IMV, a little misleading. Most ‘collisions’ that occur on roads are avoidable. There actually are very few circumstances where a collision would be viewed as a genuine accident. Investigating, apportioning liability, and prosecuting is a different matter.

:p:D
As an aside do you have a view on how ‘accidents’ are reported in the media? There seems to be a tendency to say ‘car crashes into wall’ & ‘cyclist crashes into car/other object’. It doesn’t massively bother me but a lot of in the cycling community get rather irate about it, cars don’t crash by themselves.
 
In the '90s when fighting against anti motorbike legislation, the stats in this country indicated that nearly 70% of collisions involving motorbikes and cars were the fault of car drivers. I fell off my bike once, due to the new to me bike having old and hard tyres. I have had 3 car/bike collisions, and in every case the driver was prosecuted. The only other collision was where a cyclist rode out of an alley into my path and snapped my finger. He and his two friends then tried to mug me!
You really are an outlier;)
 
I did have a very close pass today from a large articulated lorry, the irony of the vehicle having two stickers on the back was not lost on me. One said ‘cyclists keep your distance’ & the other ‘beware of passing on inside’.

Obviously cycle lanes tend to be on the left & I don’t know whether you can prove whether a vehicle indicates left before turning? Generally large lorries are very considerate, very raw so I get a close pass from them.

Ultimately it really helps if you can second guess what other road users intentions are, that certainly cuts both ways.

I did have another rethought today (rare I know) we currently have death by dangerous driving & death by careless driving, the latter seems to be a more common verdict. I wonder if the proposed new legislation is going to mirror this for cycling?
 
As an aside do you have a view on how ‘accidents’ are reported in the media? There seems to be a tendency to say ‘car crashes into wall’ & ‘cyclist crashes into car/other object’. It doesn’t massively bother me but a lot of in the cycling community get rather irate about it, cars don’t crash by themselves.

My view of media reporting is somewhat skewed, sadly. I’ve mentioned it on PFM before. I’ve experienced dealing with several national and regional outlets that significantly skewed reporting of incidents I supervised/dealt with. I do have good experience, also, tho. Inconsistent is probably a fair conclusion.

Selective media reporting is a bit like pfm. Some contributors post to support their point/argument, but don’t when an alternate/opposite view is available. It’s just life and human nature, I suppose.
 
My view of media reporting is somewhat skewed, sadly. I’ve mentioned it on PFM before. I’ve experienced dealing with several national and regional outlets that significantly skewed reporting of incidents I supervised/dealt with. I do have good experience, also, tho. Inconsistent is probably a fair conclusion.

Selective media reporting is a bit like pfm. Some contributors post to support their point/argument, but don’t when an alternate/opposite view is available. It’s just life and human nature, I suppose.
Fair enough but media should be held to higher level of impartiality or scrutiny of fact than some random blokes disagreeing about cables. This holds especially true of the BBC who are often guilty of the practice outlined.
 


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