advertisement


Coronavirus - the new strain XVII

Status
Not open for further replies.
Seanm said:
The hell mouth has opened in Brazil because the government opened it. They’re pursuing the Let ‘er Rip policy that our own government attempted. The new variant makes things worse but this is just what we had here last year, extended. The vaccines work against the new variant and if people were vaccinated in Brazil none of this would be happening. It won’t happen here (again) because we’re well on the way to getting all adults vaccinated and we’re opening up slowly.
Click to expand...

P1 is here precisely because of the policy that is being pursued in Brazil, unfortunately I don't think it's true that the vaccines 'work'. I read that efficacy is seriously reduced to around 30% to P1, which would likely be insufficient to halt the spread, as far as I understand it.
 
matt j said:
I can't believe people are itching to get away abroad on holiday, what with how most other places are dealing with it, or not in most cases.
Click to expand...
We are booked to fly long haul. We did pay a fair chunk extra to travel club. It will probably be moved again, I should imagine.
 
BTW, for the avoidance of doubt I'm not anti-vaccine or remotely anti-vaccine, I've already been vaccinated (first dose) and will take the second dose and whatever boosters we need to take but first and foremost, I'm a realist and this vaccine stuff has been used by governments to placate people but that can only go on for so long and they've now been found out, in fact the French , Germans and Italians have been shouting about this issue from the rooftops since January but here, in the UK, it's all 'ah but those French/German/Italians are bstards'.
 
gavreid said:
My suspicion is that deaths among older age groups have gone under-reported because they aren't fully investigated. X or Y died in the night of stroke that sort of thing - nothing sinister, just the routine.
...
Click to expand...
Anecdotal I know, but the elderly brother of some friends passed away in hospital some weeks back. He was 82.
He didn't have covid, but his relatives were asked if they could put covid on the death certificate.
Apparently it makes the admin easier !
 
twotone said:
BTW, for the avoidance of doubt I'm not anti-vaccine or remotely anti-vaccine, I've already been vaccinated (first dose) and will take the second dose and whatever boosters we need to take but first and foremost, I'm a realist and this vaccine stuff has been used by governments to placate people but that can only go on for so long and they've now been found out, in fact the French , Germans and Italians have been shouting about this issue from the rooftops since January but here, in the UK, it's all 'ah but those French/German/Italians are bstards'.
Click to expand...

The vaccines are a scientific triumph and they're all we have. The IP needs to be freely available so that they can have a much broader reach more rapidly. I'll say it again and at the risk of sounding like a stuck record, absolute honesty is paramount or else faith will crumble just as soon as the protection wanes, which it inevitably will.
 
gavreid said:
The vaccines are a scientific triumph and they're all we have. The IP needs to be freely available so that they can have a much broader reach more rapidly. I'll say it again and at the risk of sounding like a stuck record, absolute honesty is paramount or else faith will crumble just as soon as the protection wanes, which it inevitably will.
Click to expand...

Totally agree however I don't believe for one minute that we've had so few incidences and deaths attributed to the vaccines as reported, it's impossible when Germany have vaccinated about a tenth of the people we have with more deaths, the tory shits are absolute at it.
 
twotone said:
Totally agree however I don't believe for one minute that we've had so few incidences and deaths attributed to the vaccines as reported, it's impossible when Germany have vaccinated about a tenth of the people we have with more deaths, the tory shits are absolute at it.
Click to expand...

I don't imagine so either, that's very much what I've been getting at. It's a slow process on here sometimes ;)
 
mandryka said:
Are there really no procedures in place which would signal this? I mean additional steps to understand cause of death if someone dies two weeks after being vaccinated?
Click to expand...

For deaths within a clinical trial there are detailed steps that are carried out (after an initial report to the mhra within 24 hours) firstly by a company medic (who is very clear that his/her responsibility is to the patient and not the company, and that they take personal medical responsibility for their work). This medic, plus the medic that reported the event assign 'causality' to the test drug, with the various levels of causility (eg definite/probable/unlikely/none) all having strict definitions. Further tests/examinations may be requested and the company and the reporting medic will agree (usually) causality. The mhra will review the reports and come to their own decision.

For deaths with a marketed product, the reporting medic will take the lead and report to the mhra via the 'yellow card' system. Witin a couple of years of the drug becoming available, the company will also be heavily involved in data gathering and advising, again with it being clear that the resonsibility is to the patient and not the company. I have been involved at a low level in investigations and the emphasis is very clear. My job required me to voluntariliy report possible life-threatening events to the mhra as a matter of urgency. Fully investigating the cause of death can take a couple of weeks even in a not too difficult case.

The problem with rare events like these that also have a background and often unexplained occurrence (apart from heparin use in some patients) is assigning causality. Everyone has to be absolutely sure that the cause is the treatment, and that can be astonishingly hard. It is doing nobody any favours to err too far on the side of caution (eg a bunch of EU countries) as a life-saving medication might end up being under-used and causing far more deaths or life-changing events via the disease being treated. That's why I keep saying the mhra has got it right so far and other EU countries have screwed up. As of now, a causal link (ie one saying after injection this happens, then that happens and the clot forms), other than the timing of the vent, has not been established (although I now suspect one will be eventually).
 
twotone said:
Totally agree however I don't believe for one minute that we've had so few incidences and deaths attributed to the vaccines as reported, it's impossible when Germany have vaccinated about a tenth of the people we have with more deaths, the tory shits are absolute at it.
Click to expand...

I know I'm a stuck record here, but the Tory shits have no influence over the mhra on medical matters, especially of this importance.
 
hc25036 said:
As of now, a causal link (ie one saying after injection this happens, then that happens and the clot forms), other than the timing of the vent, has not been established (although I now suspect one will be eventually)
Click to expand...

I thought the Norweigian doctor had a couple of weeks ago - I would have linked to it at the time but I'm too exhausted just now to look it up.

The limitation re MHRA is that it's dependent upon a hugely underfunded base...
 
hc25036 said:
I know I'm a stuck record here, but the Tory shits have no influence over the mhra on medical matters, especially of this importance.
Click to expand...

Well I for one don't agree with you.

You must be really naive if you believe that those bstards would tell the truth about anything.

We are essentially in a war situation so that allows them to do what they want.
 
hc25036 said:
I suppose you are right - I mean vaccines haven't stopped smallpox or polio for instance..... Oh, just for clarity, black death is not caused by a virus.
Click to expand...

Yes I'm well aware of what the back death is caused by but the point remains in that it hasn't been eradicated only smallpox has so that's one threat to humanity in what, 6000 years?
 
twotone said:
Well I for one don't agree with you.

You must be really naive if you believe that those bstards would tell the truth about anything.

We are essentially in a war situation so that allows them to do what they want.
Click to expand...

I'm not asking you to believe me. Just pointing out that the mhra is independent of politics and is charged with protecting the safety of the public. Naive I am not, but I am deeply critical of this lot and would be happy to see them gone. Accusing the mhra - who have been the strongest health regulator in the world for decades - of stuff that they will not do is not a way of getting at the Tories.

I'm not sure there's anything I can add.
 
hc25036 said:
I'm not asking you to believe me. Just pointing out that the mhra is independent of politics and is charged with protecting the safety of the public. Naive I am not, but I am deeply critical of this lot and would be happy to see them gone. Accusing the mhra - who have been the strongest health regulator in the world for decades - of stuff that they will not do is not a way of getting at the Tories.

I'm not sure there's anything I can add.
Click to expand...

No one and no organisation is independent of politics especially in a war situation.
 
Your coming across to me like a raving lunatic twotone, the vaccines must be helping or do you think all the families of the unreported deaths and the medical staff are complicit in this huge coverup.
 
hc25036 said:
For deaths with a marketed product, the reporting medic will take the lead and report to the mhra via the 'yellow card' system. .
Click to expand...

Yes I looked at the system in the Green Book and it does look as though, in the case of an elerly person who died of a stroke a short time after receiving AZ, whether to report it via the yellow card system is left to the judgement of the doctor doctor signing the death certificate. And I can imagine that some doctors may not have thought to make a connection in some cases.

Green Book: Chapter 9 Surveillance and monitoring (publishing.service.gov.uk)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


advertisement


Back
Top