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Corbyn at it again over Iran blowing up Oil tankers

ff1d1l said:
17.5M peoples vote is being allowed to take a population of 68M to what is acknowledged by those who believe the factual, rather than the fantastic, as a worse place.
You may not like this, but it is a fact nontheless.
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Whatever. It remains an irrelevant point.
 
SteveG said:
Last time people were voting No as they were told it was the only way Scotland could stay in the EU. Not sure what lies will be told by the No parties (which are rather similar in nature to the Brexit supporting parties as it happens) next time, but I'm assuming it'll relate to access to the pound (after Brexit I'd rather have the Euro) and the market in England which, with a Labour/Tory/Brexit/UKIP no-deal Brexit in place, will perhaps be the equivalent of a charity shop so probably no loss.
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Ah, so you don't know what you're voting for. Bit daft to do that, isn't it?

SteveG said:
If Brian was always a Leaver then he'd have said it, so I'm happy to assume that he was originally a Remain voter but has changed his mind because his Messiah said he should. That indicates he has about the same level of principle as your average LibDem MP.
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You're trying too hard to be clever.
 
Tony L said:
...except it isn’t in the ascendency, the Labour party is clearly crashing and burning at every test!
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OK, whatever. I'm talking about the current balance of power in the Labour Party. For the first time ever the various pro-war factions are well out of it, and a lot of the constant whining since 2015 is down to that particular fact.
 
Seanm said:
OK, whatever. I'm talking about the current balance of power in the Labour Party. For the first time ever the various pro-war factions are well out of it, and a lot of the constant whining since 2015 is down to that particular fact.
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"Various pro-war factions" in the Labour party? Are you honestly saying there are factions who (with no regard to Blair and his tainted legacy) want to commit thousands of young soldiers and many more civilians to suffering and death because they are doing what moderates love to do, ie instigate regime change wars for the sake of it? Crikey they sound like a proper shower of bastards.
 
gassor said:
"Various pro-war factions" in the Labour party? Are you honestly saying there are factions who (with no regard to Blair and his tainted legacy) want to commit thousands of young soldiers and many more civilians to suffering and death because they are doing what moderates love to do, ie instigate regime change wars for the sake of it? Crikey they sound like a proper shower of bastards.
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What does history suggest in this regard gassor.
 
Seanm said:
Not sure if this is a joke or not...You know we're talking about the vote on whether to go to war with Iraq?
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Yes I did, but thought it was ironic considering some here supporting the Brexit referendum as being binding, despite acknowledging that it was based on lies.
 
Brian said:
Ah, so you don't know what you're voting for. Bit daft to do that, isn't it?
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Not really an issue, given there isn't a 2nd independence referendum under way. When there is then I'm sure there will be adequate time to evaluate the lies etc. - although I'm sure there will still be a few that'll swallow them.
 
I'm a left leaning labour party member, I dont despise anyone because of their politics, moderates or right wingers.
 
ff1d1l said:
You are dead right. It does not. But not in the way you mean.

And I fail to see what your argument is trying to achieve giving instances of small majorities being enacted. Of the population, all of whom will be affected, 17.5 of 68 is a numerous, but proportionally insignificant minority.

You will say it was promised the result would be implemented. Well, that was not only deeply flawed in terms of worldwide referendum law and practice, but was a deeply, deeply stupid guarantee to give.

As you're so keen on your version of democracy, I'm presuming it includes a ratifying vote?
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I fail to see why you fail to see.

In every election a small proportion of the population ( as a whole ) get to impose their view upon all the rest of us ( for a while ) Yes.. 17.5M is a minority ( of 68M ) but it was still a majority of those entitled to vote and who bothered to vote.

I don't say that "it was promised ... " but I would point out this..

The referendum was voted on By Parliament before it was held and the parties then went on to agree the form of words and the structure of the referendum. They also campaigned on a ticket of 'respecting the result. Corbyn, after the referendum and representing the largest opposition party. called for article 50 to be enacted immediately .

To keep saying that "it wasn't a majority of the country " and "it wasn't a legitimate referendum " is just sour grapes really.

Blame Parliament and blame mostly the Labour Party if you must but to keep blaming those who voted to leave is wearing.
 
wacko said:
When the million plus British citizens in the EU were not allowed to vote the Referendum became illegitimate.
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Sorry to labour the point but the referendum was set up by an Act Of Parliament voted on by a majority in parliament. It was legitimate under the rules set by that Act of Parliament. Parliament, in that Act, chose who would be eligable to vote.The reason no party has complained to the Electoral Commission is that they well know that they will not win...... because they all agreed the terms of the referendum to start with.

It was a legitimate referendum. I don't like the result any more than you probably do but it was legitimate.
 
gassor said:
That the left despise the moderates in the Labour party more than the Tories and will make up any old kind of smear to attack them?
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Ha! Fair play to you gassor that takes some big brass ones.

Seriously tho I'm not saying the Labour right are bloodthirsty but it's a matter of historical record that they have brought the country into a lot of wars, and supported others when they weren't in government themselves. Naturally they had their reasons for pushing war in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, but they didn't have to and it was never going to work out well for anyone and they shouldn't have done it. Corbyn is simply not of this tradition and if his only achievement is to cure LAbour of its military intervention habit it will all have been worthwhile.
 
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