Yes I can see what you are getting at but life is happier rather than boring when you are genuinely content with what you have got. Also once you are happy, you listen more to the music and spend less time critiquing the speakers or whatever.
Component Priority: Speaker First, Source First, System Balance...?
- Thread starter Mike Hanson
- Start date
Mike Hanson
Trying to understand...
That depends on what makes you happy. I derive great pleasure from solving problems. If someone said, "There are no problems to solve, so just sit and enjoy yourself!" then I would be very sad indeed.
Columbo
pfm Member
Definitely some life wisdom here. And for sure, all about the music for me too. I don't get "gear first" audio folk, if they exist.
But, so far, every step up the ladder I've made has made me enjoy the music even more. It's fun. I'm more and more satisfied as I learn more and better dial in my system / try different flavours of gear. Each time I get to experience the same music in a different way. A bit like seeing your favourite artist at different venues, same music, different experience. All mostly good. But sometimes a dodgy gig.
Though I imagine different personality types obsessing and never finding satisfaction along the journey. Guess it all comes down to disposition.
Fair enough but once you have found a better speaker then you will worry about better cables or whatever.That depends on what makes you happy. I derive great pleasure from solving problems. If someone said, "There are no problems to solve, so just sit and enjoy yourself!" then I would be very sad indeed.
Columbo
pfm Member
One man's worry is another man's joy.
Tony L
Administrator
I’m somewhere in the middle. I’ve slowed down a lot recently as I’ve shifted focus from ‘buying’ to ‘restoring’, but the journey is fascinating, fun, and all part of the hobby. I’ve had most of my kit for well over a decade now, some a lot longer, but many bits have been rebuilt pretty extensively over that time. Everything vintage is in as close to as-new condition as it can possibly be, and that is an ongoing process.
Obviously I’m in a different position to many here in that the discussion aspect is part of my job, it pays for everything and is my living, so I guess I’m in the same logical category to a dealer or magazine owner. That has happened organically and I’d still be fiddling around if I was still an IT contractor, or for that matter anything. I’ve done it all my life. It is what I‘d do regardless. Very pleased the way it has panned out though!
The thing I have lost all interest in is opening new boxes, though being honest I seldom did that. I’ve always mainly lived in the used market, right from my first system back in the late-70s. Now it is everything bar consumables like cartridges or styli, new capacitors, resistors etc.
Obviously I’m in a different position to many here in that the discussion aspect is part of my job, it pays for everything and is my living, so I guess I’m in the same logical category to a dealer or magazine owner. That has happened organically and I’d still be fiddling around if I was still an IT contractor, or for that matter anything. I’ve done it all my life. It is what I‘d do regardless. Very pleased the way it has panned out though!
The thing I have lost all interest in is opening new boxes, though being honest I seldom did that. I’ve always mainly lived in the used market, right from my first system back in the late-70s. Now it is everything bar consumables like cartridges or styli, new capacitors, resistors etc.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Whereas Ivor was on to a good thing with his (LP12) 'source first', he hadn't quite got the right source. It was the electricity supplying one's kit; not sth really thought about in those days of course but it would appear that Linn's partner in crime turned competitor, Naim, which was the origin of interest in the supply side of one's (Naim) hifi. initiating dedicated radial installation take-ups and other mains paraphernalia to ostensibly improve the domestic ring supply. It wasn't always thus but is commonly part of the hifi world today.
Mike Hanson
Trying to understand...
Exactly! That's part of the fun is.
Personally I can’t stand the Naim approach.
You can provide excellent power supplies within the box.
The worst way I can imagine doing it is via an add on box and an umblilical lead.
Bloody awful power supply engineering in my view.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
No idea, but it's not just Naim which have off-board power supplies.
tuga
Legal Alien
Why?
James
Lord of the Erg\o/s
The room / listening environment is a huge factor. In my last house, the listening room was dire. It had a bass blackhole centred around 80Hz that could not be fully eliminated. The best I could get was a -15dB null, which really screws up any attempt to follow basslines. Bassists would be wandering in and out of the room depending on the notes they played.
Improving the front end and amplifiers was fruitless. Yes, I could tell the 52/135s were better than 82/250. But the improvements were marginal at best, and with 20/20 hindsight, a waste of money. In total contrast, my current home has a fabulous listening room. I keep and rotate four pairs of loudspeakers that sound very good, albeit with their own characteristics. My fav is a toss-up between Ergo E-IX and Troels G-modified Yamaha NS-1000M. My LP12 sounds just right whether I'm using an Ortofon 2M Bronze or Hana ML, and the amplifier choices I have just add some of their character into the mix.
Improving the front end and amplifiers was fruitless. Yes, I could tell the 52/135s were better than 82/250. But the improvements were marginal at best, and with 20/20 hindsight, a waste of money. In total contrast, my current home has a fabulous listening room. I keep and rotate four pairs of loudspeakers that sound very good, albeit with their own characteristics. My fav is a toss-up between Ergo E-IX and Troels G-modified Yamaha NS-1000M. My LP12 sounds just right whether I'm using an Ortofon 2M Bronze or Hana ML, and the amplifier choices I have just add some of their character into the mix.
For me it has always been speakers as being most important as it defines the sound you are going to get. The source, amp or cables will affect sound quality as well but a huge chunk will come from the speakers. The amp comes next, then source and cables. I am clearly not in the "source-first" camp.
James
Lord of the Erg\o/s
The other consideration is linearity. Most competent amplifiers operated within their power limits and load tolerance will have inaudible distortion. Same deal with digital sources. It's a little different with TT and other electro-mechanical sources, which will be less linear, flat or distortion free. But the least linear component, by a long shot, are the loudspeakers. How they perform is partly dictated by their design, but make no mistake, the room will make a huge difference. They are also far from linear.
A better front end means less garbage generated that in turn means an easier job for the boxes coming after the source, amps and, in the end, speakers, and makes them sound as best they can. That's obvious. As a once (in the deep 1980's) digital hater I must confess that todays digital source is so good that they aren't the problem. Amps shouldn't be a problem either.
Todays speakers can be very good, some old ones are also good. Small, so called, stand mounts does mids and highs very well. But their lack of proper bass (I know this, I have three sets of small ones in my collection) makes everything into a small and silly puppet show.
Conclusion: To have a chance of the music reaching the ears sounding decently realistic we need bass capable speakers. They are usually big, and pretty much all of them are expensive, at least new. A pretty hefty part of the systems cost must go to the speakers.
PS. And don't spend away the money on sillily expensive cables DS.
Todays speakers can be very good, some old ones are also good. Small, so called, stand mounts does mids and highs very well. But their lack of proper bass (I know this, I have three sets of small ones in my collection) makes everything into a small and silly puppet show.
Conclusion: To have a chance of the music reaching the ears sounding decently realistic we need bass capable speakers. They are usually big, and pretty much all of them are expensive, at least new. A pretty hefty part of the systems cost must go to the speakers.
PS. And don't spend away the money on sillily expensive cables DS.
I think the clever bit is to come in as a newbie and read and digest everything you read for a couple of years and then dive in at the top once you know what you want. I took the Naim route because I liked their sound so hence the system I have.That depends on what makes you happy. I derive great pleasure from solving problems. If someone said, "There are no problems to solve, so just sit and enjoy yourself!" then I would be very sad indeed.
On the the other hand I have a Naim 32.5 / Hicap / 250 / SBLs in the dining room, it is relatively modest but it sounds better than 99.9% of systems on the planet and I have no urge to change it.
I suppose it is all about knowing what you want and then going for it and then it's job done.
What about the subs? Compact, affordable, outperform any speakers if you’re bass-sensitive