Except he got the RAID part wrong.
cdp replacement, nas + streamer initial questions
- Thread starter 1964meb
- Start date
darrenyeats
pfm Member
IMO there is nothing wrong with a standard SBT. The spdif out performs decently and any DAC worth its salt will deal with spdif competently.
There is a lot of FUD being peddled about.
Streamers have every possibility of being as good as CD as transports. If anything, they should be better because of zero read errors and no moving parts in the box.
A CD transport is a computer (processor, RAM and mass storage). The difference is it has an optical drive with moving parts instead of a network buffer.
This is just old thinking chaps. Time for your minds to join the 21st century.
Darren
There is a lot of FUD being peddled about.
Streamers have every possibility of being as good as CD as transports. If anything, they should be better because of zero read errors and no moving parts in the box.
A CD transport is a computer (processor, RAM and mass storage). The difference is it has an optical drive with moving parts instead of a network buffer.
This is just old thinking chaps. Time for your minds to join the 21st century.
Darren
Peter Stockwell
Back for more ...
This is where I come back in. Been away.
I used to have a CDX/XPS and adequate naim amplification to go with it. My CD player now is a Wadia 6i, a player roughly contemporary to the CDX, sounds a lot better, though.
I started by using iTunes and an airport express to dip my toe into streaming music. Convenient, but not up to CD direct.
I played with a squeeze box classic, I think it was called, better than airport express, I got lured into macs by the iPod, it didn't synchronize as well as I would like with iTunes. I got hooked by the play counts and the last played date info,etc (part of meta data and tagging). Listening to LP and CD, you don't think about how music is labelled, but it's paramount in computer audio. You music must be sorted, so that you can find it easily when you are in the player software. It's also useful from file organization point of view, too.
I also past through the apple TV, 1st generation with expanded local storage, at least it synchronizes with iTunes, sounded OK, too.
Along the way I acquired a dac, a Chevron Audio Paradox that is non over sampling, I like the naturalness of NOS playback. It has a USB input, I thought I'd never use it. I got the dac after a Lite Dac Ah, which uses the same chips, and for the money sounds really nice.
A few weeks ago I decided to press into service a redundant Netbook, you know, one of those mini laptop thingies superceded by iPads and the like, as a media player, using JRiver as playback software. I still rip using iTunes on another computer to the Nas, a low spec synology. I'll be looking at other riping solutions shortly, but iTunes is a very good organizing tool. I've got so attached to it, that I'm having a hard time not being able, out of the box, to lastname sort on artist name.
So today, it's Nas for storage, NetBook for playback, and rather good Yamaha integrated amp (which I would have snobbed in my naim days). Computer audio has led me to giving up LP playback, I put the TT away last week.
I used to have a CDX/XPS and adequate naim amplification to go with it. My CD player now is a Wadia 6i, a player roughly contemporary to the CDX, sounds a lot better, though.
I started by using iTunes and an airport express to dip my toe into streaming music. Convenient, but not up to CD direct.
I played with a squeeze box classic, I think it was called, better than airport express, I got lured into macs by the iPod, it didn't synchronize as well as I would like with iTunes. I got hooked by the play counts and the last played date info,etc (part of meta data and tagging). Listening to LP and CD, you don't think about how music is labelled, but it's paramount in computer audio. You music must be sorted, so that you can find it easily when you are in the player software. It's also useful from file organization point of view, too.
I also past through the apple TV, 1st generation with expanded local storage, at least it synchronizes with iTunes, sounded OK, too.
Along the way I acquired a dac, a Chevron Audio Paradox that is non over sampling, I like the naturalness of NOS playback. It has a USB input, I thought I'd never use it. I got the dac after a Lite Dac Ah, which uses the same chips, and for the money sounds really nice.
A few weeks ago I decided to press into service a redundant Netbook, you know, one of those mini laptop thingies superceded by iPads and the like, as a media player, using JRiver as playback software. I still rip using iTunes on another computer to the Nas, a low spec synology. I'll be looking at other riping solutions shortly, but iTunes is a very good organizing tool. I've got so attached to it, that I'm having a hard time not being able, out of the box, to lastname sort on artist name.
So today, it's Nas for storage, NetBook for playback, and rather good Yamaha integrated amp (which I would have snobbed in my naim days). Computer audio has led me to giving up LP playback, I put the TT away last week.
htm_1968
pfm Member
This is true for most CD players. However, there is no digital out on the CDX so it cannot perform as a transport. The CDX2 has a digital out, but only on the relatively recent versions.
ExtremePie
pfm Member
It's too convenient, that's the thing.
My SBT playing .wmv files sounded rubbish when first dipped toe into all this. The trouble was that I knew the convenience was going to mean I use it far more than the CDP. Luckily, and through this forum, I had some advice on ripping software and file types. Once that got put into practice, the analogue output from the SBT improved markedly. Don't know or particularly care why, it just did!
Going to digital out made a further improvement and utilising Triodes EDO app on the SBT made further improvements, hence the view that its now better than the CDP transport.
Great piece of equipment.
My SBT playing .wmv files sounded rubbish when first dipped toe into all this. The trouble was that I knew the convenience was going to mean I use it far more than the CDP. Luckily, and through this forum, I had some advice on ripping software and file types. Once that got put into practice, the analogue output from the SBT improved markedly. Don't know or particularly care why, it just did!
Going to digital out made a further improvement and utilising Triodes EDO app on the SBT made further improvements, hence the view that its now better than the CDP transport.
Great piece of equipment.
htm_1968
pfm Member
Might be something wrong with your T/T
. Even with the best digital playback, I've yet to hear anything that approaches the SQ from vinyl.
Peter Stockwell
Back for more ...
Might be something wrong with your T/T
Or my ears ;-) I stopped buying LPs, not enough space. Plus, even the best turntables are not immune to end of side distortion and wow from off centre pressings.
Ah! that would make more sense, I've only ever used mine as a client in conjunction with a NAS server...well spotted
The main USB issue is that you're limited to DACs that do not require driver installation: similar problem with many Linux-based computer players.
The arguments for the Squeezebox (which we used to sell, lest I'm accused of being partisan) were cost and convenience: but the hidden costs (ie, NAS, storage, network) in reality make a Touch double the price of a comparable, proper computer transport with onboard storage.
Granted, it's slightly simpler to use but a Touch is no more or less convenient than any other tablet-operated modern audio PC.
Compared to a simple Windows-based system, the Touch has no clear advantage and a few critical handicaps. It's been very popular, though: just like those Brennan players you see advertised.
Elephantears
Trunkated Aesthete
Ouch, that Touch/Brennan comparison is a bit below the belt!
Actually I've always been bemused by why the Touch is so lauded, but even so I keep buying them when they are on offer at Amazon, then sending them back, then buying another on the next offer.
Recently I found the DAC I'd been looking for - Audio Synthesis DAX Discrete. You computer-music types only talk about Dacs made in the last 6 weeks, but there were some good ones before that.
Although this is optimised for use with a cd transport, I thought I would finally start to do computer audio. I have a Squeezebox Touch connected, then I bought a HiFace Evo for async USB connection with my Macbook Pro. It sounds pretty good with the HiFace, if not as good as the cd transport. At least I thought so for the 10 minutes I tried it, but since then I've ignored it.
Ultimately I just can't seem to be bothered with computer audio for primary listening. Spotify etc is only ever going to be secondary anyway, so I just keep spinning silver and black discs. Computers seem messy and effortful in comparison.
Actually I've always been bemused by why the Touch is so lauded, but even so I keep buying them when they are on offer at Amazon, then sending them back, then buying another on the next offer.
Recently I found the DAC I'd been looking for - Audio Synthesis DAX Discrete. You computer-music types only talk about Dacs made in the last 6 weeks, but there were some good ones before that.
Although this is optimised for use with a cd transport, I thought I would finally start to do computer audio. I have a Squeezebox Touch connected, then I bought a HiFace Evo for async USB connection with my Macbook Pro. It sounds pretty good with the HiFace, if not as good as the cd transport. At least I thought so for the 10 minutes I tried it, but since then I've ignored it.
Ultimately I just can't seem to be bothered with computer audio for primary listening. Spotify etc is only ever going to be secondary anyway, so I just keep spinning silver and black discs. Computers seem messy and effortful in comparison.
darrenyeats
pfm Member
I prefer an SBT to a netbook, et al because it has no moving parts (including no cooling fans etc) and it's extremely compact. It has a decently performing digital out too.
The possibility of syncing many squeezeboxes throughout the house is quite nice, although personally not important for me.
Item, I suspect the reason you stopped selling it was because you couldn't make enough money from it...because it's good enough out of the box despite its very reasonable cost.
Darren
The possibility of syncing many squeezeboxes throughout the house is quite nice, although personally not important for me.
Item, I suspect the reason you stopped selling it was because you couldn't make enough money from it...because it's good enough out of the box despite its very reasonable cost.
Darren
jimmy.cross
pfm Member
Umm I am a bit in the same situation, but I do have a MDac, so I just care about a streamer that has a nice interface and flexibility to stream from NAS/laptop. Hires file support would be desired. In principle the Sonos ZP90 would be ideal IF it could handle more than 44KHz/16bit audio.
It is a but surprising that after so much time they haven't change this feature.
I think two robust options could be the Denon DNP-F109 (I haven't read anything about it) and the Cambridge Audio NP30. The SqueezeBox seems a nice option but you have to make sure that your NAS can run their file server, which is not always trivial to install.
Any thoughts about any of these options, given that I do have an external DAC?
It is a but surprising that after so much time they haven't change this feature.
I think two robust options could be the Denon DNP-F109 (I haven't read anything about it) and the Cambridge Audio NP30. The SqueezeBox seems a nice option but you have to make sure that your NAS can run their file server, which is not always trivial to install.
Any thoughts about any of these options, given that I do have an external DAC?
Funnily enough, the margin on a SBT is exactly the same as a netbook - which also has no moving parts or cooling fans, etc.
The only thing the Touch has going for it has the words 'Don't Panic' printed large on the cover.
Relative to a netbook, it's more expensive (because the Touch is crippled without a network and attached storage), less versatile (because you can't use any DAC with it), has less functionality (doesn't play all formats and media sources), has a smaller screen, and can't be accused of sounding better than OK. What is point of Squeezebox?
The only score over a netbook is the shiny chrome stand. Within its limitations - granted - it is also simple and reliable. We do have one.
I appreciate that my viewpoint on this is at odds with the rest of the world (including everyone in our company), but it is a truth universally acknowledged that the world is in want of sense or sensibility.
Moving on (RIP Touch), what will the world buy now, I wonder?
Netbook or computer transport. Control with a tablet like the Squeezebox, but play any file and format (including video) via USB to the MDAC. Storage on-board, so no NAS needed. Cheap. Game over.
No qualms about comparing the Brennan to the Touch: if it quacks like a spade, I'll call it a duck.
But you've struck on something that is germane: computers, because of their ubiquity and unreliability, seem 'messy and effortful'. But all those 'streamers and servers' are fundamentally variously simplified computers - which is why they are reliable.
If you bend that everyman versatility of the computer toward simplicity, they become pussycats (except better house-trained). And the tablet interface of apps like JRemote have now actually overtaken the Logitech or Sonos interface for flexibility and ease of use.
But the major ace in the spade computers have up the hole in their sleeve is that they can be used as platforms for a truly high-end computer audio system: the likes of which you just don't get to hear in this country because we're so far behind Europe and America in this regard. If more people heard what a DAC with an Aurender or T2 Transport sound like, they wouldn't accuse computer audio of playing second fiddle to anything.
The problem is that devices like the Touch and general purpose PCs have tarred all babies with the same feather brush and thrown them out with the bath-water.