Car prices

[SteveG]

Yes, that's roughly where I am, too. My 'daily' commute (if I ever find myself doing that again) is around 30 miles (round trip) so eminently do-able in an EV, but the in-laws are about 40 miles away, so I'd want to be able to go there and back at the drop of a hat, without having to ensure a full charge before I set off. Beyond that, the occasional trip to my brother, or up to the Lakes, Snowdonia, North Yorkshire would require a c200 mile range as an absolute minimum. And by that, I mean 200 miles driven at ahem, mumble 'proper' motorway cruising speeds with full heating or aircon, audio, lights, wipers and sundry other electrical drains. In midwinter.

I rarely go into the office but when I do it's 12 miles each way so no problem for an EV, and my wife's commute (which she does a couple of days per week) is even less.

200 miles winter range is the minimum I'd want too. The shorter of the winter routes to our weekend place is 160 miles each way, with much of it done bang on the speed limit (average speed cameras) but will often be in the dark so with lights, heating etc. as well. Diversions and delays are also possible (we had to divert the last time due to an accident on the A9 which added maybe another 10 miles) so I'd definitely want a reasonable margin to handle that - or to have the heating on while stuck. The longer route winter route (when both the other roads into Tomintoul are closed due to snow) probably isn't doable without recharge for most EV's so we'd take the petrol car in that case anyway.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Nissan Leaf E+ (cost about £30K) might be enough (range 240) and loads of charge points around according to the map on this link?
https://www.nissan.co.uk/vehicles/new-vehicles/leaf/range-charging.html

In my head, a minimum 200 miles in the circumstances I describe probably requires as an absolute minimum an 'official' 300 mile range. If you deduct 20% for cold weather, another 20% for sustained high speed cruising, and 10% for unrestrained use of heater or aircon and accessories, that takes the 300 theoretical down to around 170-180 miles. And that's the sort of distance I'd be happy to cover non-stop, so it's not like I'd need to plan a break anyway. My point is that personal transport isn't truly personal unless I can use it how I want to use it, and if I can't, then it's perhaps not the right choice for me.

 

[SteveG]

Nissan Leaf E+ (cost about £30K) might be enough (range 240) and loads of charge points around according to the map on this link?
https://www.nissan.co.uk/vehicles/new-vehicles/leaf/range-charging.html

The Nissan Leaf is perhaps top of my list for an EV (as it also seems big enough for our labrador) but I do wonder what that 240 mile range would really be on a hilly winter route up into the mountains at night.

 

[tqineil]

I saw a few of the Leaf + in Keswick recently and there were loads of fast chargers in town tbh - you route in Scotland might be more of a challenge I'd agree?

 

[SteveG]

I saw a few of the Leaf + in Keswick recently and there were loads of fast chargers in town tbh - you route in Scotland might be more of a challenge I'd agree?

There are probably chargers available if you diverted off the route a bit to find them, however it's a trip I do non-stop in about 2 and a half to 2 and three quarter hours and I'd really not want to add significantly to that time - both to find a charging point and to actually re-charge. Especially in the winter when I'd be sitting freezing while the car was charged, as there are no services with cafe's etc. on the route.

 

[lordsummit]

My brother was an early adopter and has a series 1 Zoe (2014) which he got new. It has a smaller battery than the current model and much less range (typically <100 miles). He lives near Bury St Edmunds and came up here to visit us (in Manchester) recently. I've driven that trip (in a van, and in a car) and it takes ~4hr30mins. The journey here took him over 9 hours (on a Friday), and his journey home took nearly 10 (on a Sunday). That was two charging stops each way, and on each trip there was an 'issue' with one of the chargers. He also attempted to recharge on a charger in a local supermarket. The App showed the charger as working, and it seemed to talk to the car fine, but we went back to the car 3 hours later and it hadn't added even 1% charge.

He accepts that the Zoe is not the right car for that sort of trip, but he's currently 'between cars' on their other car, so there wasn't a choice.

I want to go electric, but I think the infrastructure needs to catch up a bit more before I do.

Really it’s completely the wrong car, and not fair to write off more modern EVs. For a start it only charges slowly, so it must take an age to charge. Secondly it’s got a tiny range. Probably about 90 miles. The charging infrastructure is being developed to allow more rapid charging. I am use the more up to date chargers, and I’ve found that if I stick to Instavolt or Shell which are included in my plan, I won’t be disappointed. If you count on a BP charger you need a plan b for sure. I admittedly don’t do many long journeys, but, when I do I check the status of my planned chargers before I set off, aim to stop when the car is between 20/30%, and charge it up to 80%. This usually takes about 30/40 minutes and gives me an additional 100-120 miles of range. I find by the time I’ve drunk a coffee, had a pee, I’m pretty much ready to go again. I’ve not had a single stressful long journey. I’ve been up to Newcastle a few times, and down to Nottingham. It does require planning, and I admire the perseverance of your brother, but his car will be brilliant for local journeys. It’s not a long distance vehicle at all.

 

[SteveG]

One of our friends has a Leaf and did a tour round the Highlands of Scotland with it in the summer and were updating on Facebook on the charging situation as they went. They were making the point that it was entirely do-able, and of course it was, however to me it sounded like a proper pain in the backside. They did have to spend a bit of time looking for working chargers, and also often had to leave the car charging some distance away from their accommodation.

 

[richardg]

How is the depreciaiton on electric cars vs proper cars, please'?

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Really it’s completely the wrong car, and not fair to write off more modern EVs. For a start it only charges slowly, so it must take an age to charge. Secondly it’s got a tiny range. Probably about 90 miles. The charging infrastructure is being developed to allow more rapid charging. I am use the more up to date chargers, and I’ve found that if I stick to Instavolt or Shell which are included in my plan, I won’t be disappointed. If you count on a BP charger you need a plan b for sure. I admittedly don’t do many long journeys, but, when I do I check the status of my planned chargers before I set off, aim to stop when the car is between 20/30%, and charge it up to 80%. This usually takes about 30/40 minutes and gives me an additional 100-120 miles of range. I find by the time I’ve drunk a coffee, had a pee, I’m pretty much ready to go again. I’ve not had a single stressful long journey. I’ve been up to Newcastle a few times, and down to Nottingham. It does require planning, and I admire the perseverance of your brother, but his car will be brilliant for local journeys. It’s not a long distance vehicle at all.

Yes, I'm not writing off EVs on the back of this. Though, it should be noted that he has previously done the trip here in the Zoe, leaving his Volvo XC90 on his driveway, so he's kinda trying to make a point that it's do-able, but inadvertently completely undermining it, IMV. He argued that the Volvo would have cost c£70 in Diesel, whereas the Zoe was around a tenner, but he charges his time (as a contracting engineer) at probably £50 per hour; by my reckoning then, the 4 hour premium in the Zoe cost him £200.

 

[SteveG]

How is the depreciaiton on electric cars vs proper cars, please'?

Surely no-one in their right mind would buy a used EV (or a new one for that matter), so I'd have thought the depreciation was massive.

The only way I'd consider one is on a lease deal - no way I'd buy one.

 

[Seeker_UK]

How is the depreciaiton on electric cars vs proper cars, please'?

They look about the same but, as with ICE cars, depreciation varies from model to model.

https://www.carwow.co.uk/blog/do-electric-cars-depreciate#gref

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Surely no-one in their right mind would buy a used EV (or a new one for that matter), so I'd have thought the depreciation was massive.

The only way I'd consider one is on a lease deal - no way I'd buy one.

Why? Is this different to your view for an ICE car ie, would you only by a car (whether ICE or EV) on a lease, or would you buy an ICE car by another means? My problem with lease cars is that at the end of the lease the car goes back and I have nothing to show for my outlay. I have to start again.

As I approach retirement, I'll need to consider whether I need to trim regular outgoings, and leasing a car is probably a drain on disposable income that I could do without. Owning a reliable car that would last me into my dotage is one option I'm considering. I could well envisage that being an EV, not least due to lack of servicing costs and the inherent reliability of the running gear, so leasing one wouldn't make sense.

 

[Tony Lockhart]

We ordered, back in June, a new Passat estate, 1.5 petrol. We need the size, but no way is there anything suitable and in our price range in an EV, which is a shame. Maybe next time.

eta: still waiting, maybe Feb/March. If it takes much longer we’ll have to reconsider, look at used alternatives.

 

[richardg]

Not being able to get one's head round the long-term viability of an electric car, I am surprised the depreciation is about the same. There are plenty of sceptics out there and with Porsche beavering away at a bio-petrol for the mass market, I'm still hopeful that electric cars will have about the same lifspan as CDs.

 

[lordsummit]

Up to the lakes is easy Steve from where we are. Lots of Instavolt chargers on the way you can quickly top up at located at Booths supermarkets. You can plug in, pick up a few nice treats and totally remove any range anxiety you may have. Always costs me a fortune!!

 

[SteveG]

Why? Is this different to your view for an ICE car ie, would you only by a car (whether ICE or EV) on a lease, or would you buy an ICE car by another means? My problem with lease cars is that at the end of the lease the car goes back and I have nothing to show for my outlay. I have to start again.

I tend to pay cash for my ICE cars and have never leased one (I also tend to keep them for a long time), however with an EV I've got concerns about the affect of battery life and the cost of battery replacement on the long term value, plus the speed at which the technology is evolving is also likely to depress the costs of the earlier cars. Also I'd most likely want to replace an EV more often as they're border line for range now, so any drop in battery effectiveness over the years is going to move then from marginal to useless (for my use case anyway).

 

[richardg]

I tend to pay cash for my ICE cars and have never leased one (I also tend to keep them for a long time), however with an EV I've got concerns about the affect of battery life and the cost of battery replacement on the long term value, plus the speed at which the technology is evolving is also likely to depress the costs of the earlier cars. Also I'd most likely want to replace an EV more often as they're border line for range now, so any drop in battery effectiveness over the years is going to move then from marginal to useless (for my use case anyway).

In about 50 years a lithium battery will have kudos like carburettors...or will it.

 

[SteveG]

Up to the lakes is easy Steve from where we are. Lots of Instavolt chargers on the way you can quickly top up at located at Booths supermarkets. You can plug in, pick up a few nice treats and totally remove any range anxiety you may have. Always costs me a fortune!!

It's bit different between Edinburgh and the Cairngorms. There is only one proper service station on route (and it's near the Edinburgh end, in Fife) and while there are quite a few charging options near the A9 route (although I think they most if not all need at least a small diversion) they're not in service stations or supermarkets etc. so you'd be hanging around in the cold at night while the car charged.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Up to the lakes is easy Steve from where we are. Lots of Instavolt chargers on the way you can quickly top up at located at Booths supermarkets. You can plug in, pick up a few nice treats and totally remove any range anxiety you may have. Always costs me a fortune!!

Yes, I'm sure, but from where we are (like you, Manchester area) we can currently get to pretty much anywhere in the Lakes in <2 hours, in one easy hop, and most of the main spots in around 90 mins. So adding another 30 mins, and a break of journey, isn't something we'd contemplate, TBH.

 

[lordsummit]

A quick peek at Zap Map suggests there are
five rapids in the middle of the journey, and lots around Inverness and on the way out of Edinburgh. With a modern vehicle, not Sue’s brother’s one you’d have probably 15/20 mins to wait just for a little top-up charge. The heaters do work whilst plugged in. On a Tesla you can even play games on the dash!