Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
Now, now....party pooping it is.
Brexit: give me a positive effect... XIV
- Thread starter Tony L
- Start date
- Status
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
He probably didn’t know them personally…
Spraggons Den
pfm Member
cripes you know a lot of nurses and must know even more unless all of the ones you know left.
How many nurses did you know and what percentage has left and was it definitely brexit which made them pack up their little watch thingy they use when checking a patient's pulse and return to the country of their birth?
How many nurses did you know and what percentage has left and was it definitely brexit which made them pack up their little watch thingy they use when checking a patient's pulse and return to the country of their birth?
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
tuga
Legal Alien
And the other 99988?
What about doctors or other hospital staff? I know at least a dozen of the former and maybe half a dozen of the latter.
It's still far from 100,000 but do you trust the Royal College of Nursing?
Even more alarming is the growing numbers of established EU nurses leaving the UK altogether.
In the two years since the referendum, over 7,000 established EU nurses have left the register, compared to just over 4,000 who left in the three years preceding the referendum.
https://www.rcn.org.uk/-/media/roya...ocuments/publications/2018/may/pdf-006982.pdf
My wife's a consultant by the way so I get a lot of the understaff complaints first hand.
Thank you for that source which states:
EU nurses have dropped from 7.4% to 6.9% and EU doctors from 9.9% to 9.1%.
In 2015/16, 11% of those joining the NHS were EU nationals (counting those for whom a nationality was known). In 2017/18, this had fallen to to 8%, and in 2019 to 7%. For nurses the percentage of EU joiners fell from 19% in 2015/16 to 6% in 2019. Meanwhile, the proportion of nurses joining the NHS with non-EU nationality rose from 8% in 2015/16 to 22% in 2019.
That is only until 2019. And I'll bet it is continuing.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Well, the link did seem to suggest tens of thousands of EU citizens working in the NHS. Given the raw deal the NHS has had during COVID, and seems likely to get in the next few years, I’d not be surprised to see the non-settled EU staff (ie, the ones without family commitments here) buggering off in their droves. The numbers leaving the register have already increased by a factor of 75%, and where that number used to be fairly dynamic (ie, 4000 left in any given year while a similar number joined) I don’t see any inward EU migration to the NHS at the moment, and see no reason to expect it to pick up again.I'll take the info at links I posted over one person's subjective view.
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
So that's 3600 lost possibly due to Brexit (3500 per year post brexit minus 1700 pre-Brexit 'churn' multiplied by 2) still not quite 100000.
I'm not denying there has been some departure from Brexit but it does not account for the 100k shortfall; that is due to longer term issues. At least aim your complaints at the right cause.
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
Agreed but at the moment, they haven't "b*ggered off in their droves" so your assertion that Brexit has caused at least 100000 vacancies (for nurses) is false. It *might* be a problem for the future, but not today.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
Just to reiterate...
It will be 50 years before there is a brexit positive.
This is not a thread for listing benefits of brexit.
I don’t see much evidence of empty supermarket shelves in Gloucestershire, or the Worcestershire/Shropshire border where I am right now but there must be some I suppose. After all, there was a picture posted here recently of that very thing, a picture of an empty shelf taken at an unknown location at an unknown time but an empty shelf nevertheless.
My thought is the pandemic makes it more difficult to train HGV drivers. How many would we normally expect to train in the number of months since we actually left the EU and how many have been trained? There must be a number out there somewhere for those expert at scraping around for clear proof of our doom.
I’m sure some nurses will have left the country over the last 5 years since the 2016 referendum. It’s not news. Does the pandemic have any effect on recruitment and retention of medical staff?
It will be 50 years before there is a brexit positive.
This is not a thread for listing benefits of brexit.
I don’t see much evidence of empty supermarket shelves in Gloucestershire, or the Worcestershire/Shropshire border where I am right now but there must be some I suppose. After all, there was a picture posted here recently of that very thing, a picture of an empty shelf taken at an unknown location at an unknown time but an empty shelf nevertheless.
My thought is the pandemic makes it more difficult to train HGV drivers. How many would we normally expect to train in the number of months since we actually left the EU and how many have been trained? There must be a number out there somewhere for those expert at scraping around for clear proof of our doom.
I’m sure some nurses will have left the country over the last 5 years since the 2016 referendum. It’s not news. Does the pandemic have any effect on recruitment and retention of medical staff?
tuga
Legal Alien
One of our friends who is a junior doctor says that many choose to go abroad after training, or work for the private sector.
Working conditions for juniors in the UK are appaling considering the country is ranked as 5th richest country... Blame the Tories?
tuga
Legal Alien
We'll all be dead in 50 years' time, no one will remember why there was a referendum in the first place...
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
AIUI, there's some anecdotal evidence that it's having an effect on staff (burnout, primarily) but whether it leads to long-term absences or an exodus from the NHS, only time will tell.
The trick would be to mitigate the risk and do something about the 100k vacancies.
tuga
Legal Alien
Covid has been the last drop for many NHS staff if that's what you're asking.
Some of the nurses working with my wife have asked for early retirement or left to a different job.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
It’s not my assertion, and I do take your point that the underlying causes of the shortfall are structural, not Brexit-related, but you can’t deny that Brexit has very effectively closed off one key avenue for fixing it, and is currently making it worse.
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
Working conditions for junior doctors in the UK have always been rough, regardless of government. It's an expected part of training.
tuga
Legal Alien
I wonder how hiring staff from outsourcing companies goes into the reports you posted. And there's the doctors doing locums.
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
Sorry but what else can I make of this statement?
Yep - that's what I stated back at #39 - https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/thr...ositive-effect-xiv.258092/page-2#post-4440215
- Status