Brexit: give me a positive effect... XIII

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

I certainly get the tearing stuff apart piece - what I'm not sure about is whether he actually has the desire (or indeed the ability) to put something else workable in place. Its a bit like me and motorbikes - I'm quite good at recognising issues and taking the things apart, but not always the best then at putting them back together in a way that works properly

To my knowledge, he's not spoken about what should replace the current system (I try not to listen too closely, and don't read his blog so 'm not sure, but I'm not aware of any commentary on that aspect of his views). His maxim was always 'move fast and break things', never 'choose carefully when you replace them'.

 

[TheDecameron]

Maybe the stand-down Brexiteers on this forum can provide an answer.

From the FT today:

“Johnson said that all GB-made goods should be able to go into Northern Ireland without checks,” said one EU official.

Frost’s proposals are expected to include an “honesty box” approach, where companies that said their goods were destined only for sale and use in Northern Ireland should be exempted from checks on the Irish Sea border."

Britain also wants Brussels to agree to a dual-standards regime that would allow goods that conform to UK rules to circulate freely in Northern Ireland alongside EU-compliant products, so long as they were labelled as only for use in the region, according to people with knowledge of the proposals.

Another strand of the proposals is expected to seek to remove any role for the European Commission or the European Court of Justice in the operation of the Northern Ireland protocol.

The UK is also expected to argue the threshold to trigger the protocol’s Article 16 override mechanism has already been reached because of the impact on trade."

Liam, where are you?

This is sounding suspiciously like removing the compulsion for mask wearing and saying “I’m sure people will use their common sense”. Like carousel vat fraud, it’s a recipe for abuse. The EU is expected to take Johnson at his word over the integrity of a border with them, really?

 

[TheDecameron]

What does “Price Price Farage” mean? I don’t ‘follow’ him or pay attention to him like you do.

Thanks.

ta, typo corrected. Fisher Price Farage

 

[Brian]

This is sounding suspiciously like removing the compulsion for mask wearing and saying “I’m sure people will use their common sense”. Like carousel vat fraud, it’s a recipe for abuse. The EU is expected to take Johnson at his word over the integrity of a border with them, really?

It’s true his word can’t be trusted but it is also true GB-made goods should be able to go into Northern Ireland without checks. If the EU official your mate refers to is complaining about that then it shows he does not understand N.Ireland is part of the UK.

It is also unacceptable for the European Court of Justice to have a role as per the article.

When you get Scottish independence will you be accepting of any Westminster interference in the affairs of Scotland?

 

[tonerei]

Shift in imports into Ireland from the UK to EU. No doubt Brexit related
https://www.irishtimes.com/business...c-declines-to-29-4-in-first-quarter-1.4626684

In other news looks like Frosty has a negotiation on his hands. Always difficult for me to understand how Boris could have any interest in NI. Is Frosty picked as he is the only man left standing prepared to turn the protocol into a straight banana? Meanwhile Brexiteers holiday in Blackpool and the Costa's oblivious to this side show. Beginning to wonder is it a distraction to the covid and economic numbers not withstanding that massive SAP investment earlier in the week of 250B per year for 5 years. https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0721/1236463-eu-ireland-uk-ni-protocol/

 

[Brian]

EU intransigence causing an issue, that much is clear. Everyone knows the agreement is flawed and does not work, yet once again they refuse to budge. What a disgraceful regime it has shown to be over the last few years.

From the link...it looks like the EU is not concerned about the potential for trouble in N.Ireland nor about the people of N.Ireland, the project is everything as always.

EU says it will not renegotiate Brexit NI deal

 

[puddlesplasher]

It’s true his word can’t be trusted but it is also true GB-made goods should be able to go into Northern Ireland without checks.

I agree with the above statement but the Tory party signed up to the deal we have. You could say the EU turned us over maybe but if that is the case why agree to it and then later blame the EU.

 

[tonerei]

Isn't it amazing how people can read and article and take a completely different meaning from it. Seems that Boris who was told by the EU that no rush needed best to get this right. Refuses the offer and now comes back looking for changes. If Brexit is the be all for the UK particularly England pull out all the stops to meet the protocol requirements. Plenty of folk looking for jobs just put a robust system in place to get the stuff into NI in a timely fashion. Remember it was the easiest trade deal in history surely they are not now saying that was porkies?

A simplistic view that NI is just part of UK doesn't cut it. NI is a special case we all know that. Pretending it is the same as Doncaster or London. Really?

Almost on queue dynamically article from Irish Times pops up. Headline sums it up and good explanation which puts meat on the realities. For the UK it seems a lot of this is about avoiding aligning with EU rules. Maybe EU regs are not stringent enough and the UK wants to raise the bar higher?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/pol...udacious-and-certain-to-be-rejected-1.4626995

 

[tones]

It’s true his word can’t be trusted but it is also true GB-made goods should be able to go into Northern Ireland without checks.

I agree with the above statement but the Tory party signed up to the deal we have. You could say the EU turned us over maybe but if that is the case why agree to it and then later blame the EU.

I agree with all of this. As a Norn Ironer, I don't like the idea that goods can't go from one part of the UK to another without hindrance, but then, courtesy of its traumatic birth and subsequent traumatic history, Norn Iron has always been a place apart, where the normal UK rules simply didn't apply, which is why we ended up in the situation where some sort of agreement was needed.

In addition, I work in a legal field (intellectual property), and we all know and recognise that you don't put your signature on a legally-binding agreement without first studying carefully the consequences of having done so. Nobody in my profession signs an agreement with the thought "Oh, we'll just ignore the bits that we find that we don't like". Nobody would ever do business with you again. The EU didn't turn anyone over, the UK did it to themselves, and they did it with their eyes wide open (at least I hope they were).

Brian said

it looks like the EU is not concerned about the potential for trouble in N.Ireland nor about the people of N.Ireland

However, in my opinion, the UK cares about us even less, otherwise it would have put more thought into making a better agreement. I agree that the EU could be more forthcoming, but the fault clearly lies overwhelmingly with the UK side and a Prime Minister who simply ignores inconvenient facts.

 

[tonerei]

^^^ The voice of reason speaks again and eloquently sets out the reality.

Can't disagree with anything except unfortunately the folks who went for Bojo Brexit are getting the mess they voted for. Man up and accept it or go back and ask them to cancel Brexit.

 

[SteveS1]

EU intransigence causing an issue, that much is clear. Everyone knows the agreement is flawed and does not work, yet once again they refuse to budge. What a disgraceful regime it has shown to be over the last few years.

From the link...it looks like the EU is not concerned about the potential for trouble in N.Ireland nor about the people of N.Ireland, the project is everything as always.

LOL "EU Intransigence". Frost has just come out and said the agreement they negotiated and Johnson presented as an oven ready triumph was nothing of the kind and that's the EU's fault?

Johnson is using the sensitivity of the NI situation to try and re-negotiate a treaty they had no intention of honouring in the first place. People were stupid to assume it was anything other than a device to get to this position.

 

[tonerei]

LOL "EU Intransigence". Frost has just come out and said the agreement he negotiated and Johnson presented as an oven ready triumph was nothing of the kind and that's the EU's fault?

Johnson is using the sensitivity of the NI situation to try and re-negotiate a treaty they had no intention of honouring in the first place. People were stupid to assume it was anything other than a device to get to this position.

Compulsory watching for Brexiteers before they blame the EU. Is he that cunning that he used the protocol as a device to get this position? I would have thought he has never put any effort into the protocol or any other Brexit technical document

 

[Brian]

I said...
It’s true his word can’t be trusted but it is also true GB-made goods should be able to go into Northern Ireland without checks.

I agree with the above statement but the Tory party signed up to the deal we have. You could say the EU turned us over maybe but if that is the case why agree to it and then later blame the EU.

The UK govt signed up to it because the tories are incompetent. If there is blame it is with the tories from the start, no argument from me on that, I’ve always taken the view that no tory govt=no brexit ( doesn’t go down well here, of course ). However, it’s the practicalities of the way forward that matter now and that is what I’m talking about.

The only possible way forward is for the EU to get around a table to take part in negotiating a deal that works. If they refuse to do so that is down to the EU, it will show what they are about is punishing the UK and for that, the EU will be responsible. The referendum was a democratic process and they should respect that, they also need to respect that N.Ireland is part of the UK, yet it seems they struggle with that fact.

 

[Brian]

LOL "EU Intransigence". Frost has just come out and said the agreement they negotiated and Johnson presented as an oven ready triumph was nothing of the kind and that's the EU's fault?

Johnson is using the sensitivity of the NI situation to try and re-negotiate a treaty they had no intention of honouring in the first place. People were stupid to assume it was anything other than a device to get to this position.

LOL.

“EU says it will not renegotiate Brexit NI deal” = EU intransigence. By the definition, it is bang on the money.

Neither side has negotiated in good faith since the referendum. That isn’t siding with the tories, though you’ll probably make out it is. You usually do.

Whatever went before, refusing to re-negotiate a deal to replace a deal that is flawed is the fault of whichever side refuses to negotiate.

 

[tonerei]

On queue more articles. https://www.irishtimes.com/business...t-christmas-products-from-ni-stores-1.4626606
They are having the same issues in Ireland. 1000's of posts on threads like this warned what Brexit actually meant. It was all dismissed by the leave side as project fear, they need us more etc etc. Reality is here now. Yes something needs to happen but if you want trade with the EU then there is no option but to have closer alignment and a softening of the Brexit position. I hear no calls for that. There is no other way except to continue down this cul-de-sac to preserve their version of Brexit which the 52/48% vote split imho did not give them a mandate to implement this version.

 

[SteveS1]

LOL.

“EU says it will not renegotiate Brexit NI deal” = EU intransigence. By the definition, it is bang on the money.

Neither side has negotiated in good faith since the referendum. That isn’t siding with the tories, though you’ll probably make out it is. You usually do.

Whatever went before, refusing to re-negotiate a deal to replace a deal that is flawed is the fault of whichever side refuses to negotiate.

Why should anyone re-negotiate any agreement that the other party went to great pains to celebrate as a success? You wouldn't. So it's not 'bang on' the money at all, it's bollox.

It was Johnson's device to recruit more idiots to blame the EU rather than him. Seems to be working.

 

[TheDecameron]

LOL "EU Intransigence". Frost has just come out and said the agreement they negotiated and Johnson presented as an oven ready triumph was nothing of the kind and that's the EU's fault?

Johnson is using the sensitivity of the NI situation to try and re-negotiate a treaty they had no intention of honouring in the first place. People were stupid to assume it was anything other than a device to get to this position.

Raab was even selling the oven ready Johnson masterpiece to the people of N.Ireland- they were in a uniquely advantageous position- the only part of the U.K. able to take advantage of customs union with the EU- their exports would be entirely frictionless. Boris went over and told businesses “shhh, you won’t need to fill in any extra paperwork in goods crossing the Irish Sea”. It was a dream come true…sign here.

 

[tuga]

What's causing an increase in (car) fuel prices: the EU, BrExit, both, something else?

 

[SteveS1]

Raab was even selling the oven ready Johnson masterpiece to the people of N.Ireland- they were in a uniquely advantageous position- the only part of the U.K. able to take advantage of customs union with the EU- their exports would be entirely frictionless. Boris went over and told businesses “shhh, you won’t need to fill in any extra paperwork in goods crossing the Irish Sea”. It was a dream come true…sign here.

Nothing sums up this mindless project more graphically.

Sign an international agreement necessary only because of an absurd insistence on abandoning a seamless trading system which had worked fine for over forty years. Sell it's destruction as a massive achievement. Then pretend the clearly stated consequences are a surprise and blame the other side for over-zealous insistence on rules and regs, to which you agreed and in many cases, actually wrote.

Announce that you will abandon the agreement unilaterally because it doesn't suit you. Then wonder why said partner will not trust a word you say.

 

[TheDecameron]

The US trade deal, one of the biggest prizes of Brexit touted by the Tories and Farage is looking more and more like a failed mission to Mars. The US never had any urgency to reach a deal with a medium sized solitary country and the Biden administration has warned Britain any attempt to compromise the GFA through flouting the NIP will shut the door on an agreement.