Brexit: give me a positive effect... XIII

[Sonority]

The solution for the German footwear industry is to transfer production to India and China and supply non EU countries direct. This will also help Germany to hit its EU green targets.

Just for the sake of it - just what the hell sort of answer is that?
It's just garbage, as per usual, but if thats the way you think business should run..

 

[eternumviti]

Just for the sake of it - just what the hell sort of answer is that?
It's just garbage, as per usual, but if thats the way you think business should run..

What's garbage about, that's what thousands upon thousands of businesses have done in the name of globalisation. Export production to where the labour is cheap, standards are lower, and your CO2 becomes someone else's problem.

 

[Sonority]

You seem to think that every company is some big multinational or someone who can afford to do that.
There are tens of thousands of small companies / famiy concerns both in the EU and britain going to the wall for this utter cluster....
Just so we can be - well, whatever.

 

[eternumviti]

Businesses in the EU going to the wall because of Brexit?

 

[Sonority]

Yes - just do some homework. Plenty of small businesses used to sell a huge amount to the UK - Im not claiming each one is big, but they are still businesses with families and houses. As for the UK -> EU, you already know the facts.

 

[eternumviti]

If the only trade and cooperation agreement that the EU was willing to offer the UK was so lacking in the cooperation bit that it would destroy the EU's own small UK-facing businesses, perhaps they didn't think it through properly.

Perhaps too much 'rules-based' and not enough 'people-based'?

 

[Colin Barron]

Just for the sake of it - just what the hell sort of answer is that?
It's just garbage, as per usual, but if thats the way you think business should run..

Apart from the EU sacred cow of CO2 reduction which in the near future will incur tariffs, the total cost of industrial labour in Germany last time i looked was 37 Euros per hour, then there is the export tariffs as discussed. All in all it makes India and China look very cheap at a few US dollars per hour. What is not to like, the German company survives and makes a profit, instead of going bust and supplies the EU and non EU countries hassle free. Of course no tax will be paid to the German tax man, nor will the company employ 4 or 5 people as indirect labour, but you cannot win them all.

 

[eternumviti]

I've said it a thousand times on here, but if this is the case it goes right to the core of the problem. The EU has demonstrated time and again that it will always prioritise the project over the small people.

 

[PsB]

Apart from the EU sacred cow of CO2 reduction which in the near future will incur tariffs, the total cost of industrial labour in Germany last time i looked was 37 Euros per hour, then there is the export tariffs as discussed. All in all it makes India and China look very cheap at a few US dollars per hour. What is not to like, the German company survives and makes a profit, instead of going bust and supplies the EU and non EU countries hassle free. Of course no tax will be paid to the German tax man, nor will the company employ 4 or 5 people as indirect labour, but you cannot win them all.

If you think the cost of industrial labour in China is still a few dollars an hour, you haven't been keeping up. Many parts of China, especially coastal China, are no longer low-cost. There are all sorts of stats available (usual caveats apply), but average monthly salaries in China these days seem around $1000, x10 in 20 years...

 

[PsB]

I've said it a thousand times on here, but if this is the case it goes right to the core of the problem. The EU has demonstrated time and again that it will always prioritise the project over the small people.

Yes, globalization is all the EU's fault. Bad EU.
Fortunately, the UK has left now. Opportunities beckon left, right and centre for unfettered trade.

 

[eternumviti]

Hang on, the other poster said the small businesses can't afford to 'globalise'. So presumably they are first clobbered by the big corporates who can (and who traditionally have the commission's regulatory ear) and then by EU dogma. It doesn't make it sound as though the EU is that great a place for small businesses, most especially ones that face the UK.

 

[Colin Barron]

If you think the cost of industrial labour in China is still a few dollars an hour, you haven't been keeping up. Many parts of China, especially coastal China, are no longer low-cost. There are all sorts of stats available (usual caveats apply), but average monthly salaries in China these days seem around $1000, x10 in 20 years...

China is a very big country and industry will relocate within the country to reduce costs. As you say Chinese labour costs are rising and while we are on the subject of shoe manufacture, here is an article where the manufacturer who had a Chinese factory and moved to India because of labour availability and lower cost.
https://retail.economictimes.indiat...shift-production-to-india-from-china/75827074
Beijing has the highest hourly minimum wage (RMB 24/US$3.7 per hour)
https://www.china-briefing.com/news/minimum-wages-china-2021/

 

[PsB]

Hang on, the other poster said the small businesses can't afford to 'globalise'. So presumably they are first clobbered by the big corporates who can (and who traditionally have the commission's regulatory ear) and then by EU dogma. It doesn't make it sound as though the EU is that great a place for small businesses, most especially ones that face the UK.

If small businesses in the EU can't globalize, how come they were selling to the UK in the first place? Could it be the SM helped them?
If small businesses can't compete with the big corporations plus get clobbered by EU dogma, how come so many of them are still alive, innovating and prospering?

You may be interested to learn that SMEs in the EU employ a significantly higher proportion of total company employees (66.3%) than in the UK (53.5%), that these companies generate a higher proportion of total corporate sales (55.8%) than those in the UK (47%), which suggests the business environment in the EU27 is more favourable for SMEs than you suggest.
Source: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/stati...and_medium-sized_enterprises#General_overview
The UK figures are actually the lowest of the lot. Malta has the highest.

It is quite possible that some small (and maybe even some not so small) companies on each side of the Channel will ultimately decide that the business on the other side is no longer worth it due to higher transaction costs. That would be a shame of course, and something that could have been avoided had the UK not insisted for largely ideological reasons on leaving the benefits of the customs union behind. Brexit has always been a lose/lose proposition.

 

[TheDecameron]

Just for the sake of it - just what the hell sort of answer is that?
It's just garbage, as per usual, but if thats the way you think business should run..

It’s the kipper fly tipping special. Works down the bowling club but doesn’t do so well here. Still, where can you get this level of entertainment free these days?

…meanwhile sweating Raab, a man with the gravitas of a pet food salesman, is demanding Britain gets to flex the rules as it sees fit and to hell with written agreements,


“The ball is in the EU’s court,” Raab told BBC One’s The Andrew Marr Show. “We are willing to be flexible and pragmatic, but they must come back with the reciprocal goodwill to make that happen”.

Exports to Europe have already been hammered, tariffs for rule breaking will be the nail in the coffin for many exporters.
Walk away now- clean break Brexit.

 

[eternumviti]

If small businesses in the EU can't globalize, how come they were selling to the UK in the first place? Could it be the SM helped them?
If small businesses can't compete with the big corporations plus get clobbered by EU dogma, how come so many of them are still alive, innovating and prospering?

You may be interested to learn that SMEs in the EU employ a significantly higher proportion of total company employees (66.3%) than in the UK (53.5%), that these companies generate a higher proportion of total corporate sales (55.8%) than those in the UK (47%), which suggests the business environment in the EU27 is more favourable for SMEs than you suggest.
Source: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/stati...and_medium-sized_enterprises#General_overview
The UK figures are actually the lowest of the lot. Malta has the highest.

It is quite possible that some small (and maybe even some not so small) companies on each side of the Channel will ultimately decide that the business on the other side is no longer worth it due to higher transaction costs. That would be a shame of course, and something that could have been avoided had the UK not insisted for largely ideological reasons on leaving the benefits of the customs union behind. Brexit has always been a lose/lose proposition.

You're responding to the wrong person. It wasn't me who said that thousands of EU based SMEs were folding due to Brexit, it is the guy to whom I was responding!

It's funny how this happens on pfm.

 

[PsB]

You're responding to the wrong person. It wasn't me who said that thousands of EU based SMEs were folding due to Brexit, it is the guy to whom I was responding!

No, I'm not, and you're now going all cute.
I responded to your message, as you had twisted Sonority's message (which was essentially that not every company can afford to transfer production to China, and Brexit chaos is hurting lots of them) to say that the EU is killing thousands of SMEs, targeting the small people etc. Very clever of you to project your opinions on someone else.

 

[Kirk]

It’s the kipper fly tipping special. Works down the bowling club but doesn’t do so well here. Still, where can you get this level of entertainment free these days?

…meanwhile sweating Raab, a man with the gravitas of a pet food salesman, is demanding Britain gets to flex the rules as it sees fit and to hell with written agreements,


“The ball is in the EU’s court,” Raab told BBC One’s The Andrew Marr Show. “We are willing to be flexible and pragmatic, but they must come back with the reciprocal goodwill to make that happen”.

Exports to Europe have already been hammered, tariffs for rule breaking will be the nail in the coffin for many exporters.
Walk away now- clean break Brexit.

He also called for respect from the EU during that interview. Olympic levels of self-awareness.

 

[Kirk]

I wouldn't dare comment!

Odd for one of the thread's most prolific posters but have a like for being British.

 

[Kirk]

Why are you two still worrying about what Verhofstadt, now a rank and file MEP, said a year and a half ago? Afraid there may be something to the rumour?
It's OK, the UK left. Official.

PF Leavers are in a codependent relationship with the EU. They are defined by it. Makes 'em feel good too.

 

[eternumviti]

No, I'm not, and you're now going all cute.
I responded to your message, as you had twisted Sonority's message (which was essentially that not every company can afford to transfer production to China, and Brexit chaos is hurting lots of them) to say that the EU is killing thousands of SMEs, targeting the small people etc. Very clever of you to project your opinions on someone else.

No, I didn't, sonority said that that thousands of UK facing EU companies (and EU facing UK companies) are going to the wall, not me!

Read the thread, ffs.