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Brexit: give me a positive effect... VI

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stephen bennett said:
Hilariously, Douglas Ross MP was on Any Questions last week castigating the SNP for wanting to create a huge economic and constitutional change to the UK in the middle of a health crisis.

No sense of irony. No sense of hypocrisy .

Stephen
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We’ve been delighted and continually surprised by his performance. His predecessor was a tough act to follow but Ross has brought his unique blend of dishonesty and lack of commitment to the job. He lies publicly about his voting record and doesn’t show up for national war commemorations when every other Scottish Party leader does, leaving the Conservative Party unrepresented. Instead he takes cash from his second job when he’s already getting a generous package as an MP.

Now he’s trying to sell Boris Johnson and Brexit in Scotland- you can imagine how that’s going to go down.
 
TheDecameron said:
We’ve been delighted and continually surprised by his performance. His predecessor was a tough act to follow but Ross has brought his unique blend of dishonesty and lack of commitment to the job. He lies publicly about his voting record and doesn’t show up for national war commemorations when every other Scottish Party leader does, leaving the Conservative Party unrepresented. Instead he takes cash from his second job when he’s already getting a generous package as an MP.

Now he’s trying to sell Boris Johnson and Brexit in Scotland- you can imagine how that’s going to go down.
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Talking about hypocrisy and irony. I don’t know why anyone bothers, there is no countering vile nationalism once it gets a grip.

If what you and a few other noisy nationalists say on pfm is true, Scotland needs independence just to ram home the damage you will do to the Scottish economy.

Any closer to making a case for it yet? Let’s start with a customs border. What will it cost and how will Scotland pay for it? I look forward to reading your words of wisdom and truth in the other thread.
 
ff1d1l said:
Indeed, which is why we are stuck with a brexshit which is unrecognisable from what was promised, and which only a minority of the country want.
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Only the govt at the time could make promises and the UK govt campaigned to remain. Anything said by the ‘leave campaign’ was not a promise, it was a campaign sound-bite.

A majority want brexit. As recently as Dec 2019 it was possible to vote against brexit yet millions did not do so. Such idiots, eh...

farfromthesun said:
Clearly England, Wales and Northern Ireland should bend over backwards and compromise as required to accommodate the decision.
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I asked how much a border will cost and how will Scotland pay for it? What does compromise have to do with it at all, let alone bending over backwards? If for some reason you’re jumping ahead and talking about a trade deal between Scotland and the UK, then yes, compromises will be required with a lot of giving by Scotland as the weaker party.

Obviously, the ‘partner’ leaving the club has to pay for the border.
 
Brian said:
A majority want brexit.
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Which, of course is not true. I appreciate you are using this as a short-hand, Brian. But other's continue to peddle this as a fact.

It is true that a majority of those who voted in the referendum wanted Brexit, while a minority of people voted for a party promising Brexit in the 2019 election which, because of our antiquated voting system, translated into a 'majority'. What those who had a vote, but did not cast it, wanted is debatable.

I realise it doesn't matter a hoot as to the outcome of the process, but it's still worthwhile pointing out what actually happened.

Maybe one day people will care.


Stephen
 
Brian said:
Only the govt at the time could make promises and the UK govt campaigned to remain. Anything said by the ‘leave campaign’ was not a promise, it was a campaign sound-bite.

A majority want brexit. As recently as Dec 2019 it was possible to vote against brexit yet millions did not do so. Such idiots, eh...


I asked how much a border will cost and how will Scotland pay for it? What does compromise have to do with it at all, let alone bending over backwards? If for some reason you’re jumping ahead and talking about a trade deal between Scotland and the UK, then yes, compromises will be required with a lot of giving by Scotland as the weaker party.

Obviously, the ‘partner’ leaving the club has to pay for the border.
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I really don't want Scotland to secede, especially because of the Tory hegemony that would create in rUK. I'm a remainer in both cases.

But we really do not have any moral high-ground here.

If Brexit is good enough for the UK, the same logic applies to Scotland leaving the union.

What is strange is that those who suggest there are positives to Brexit, claiming that sovereignty and identity and borders win out over over pure economics, are quick to say those same 'positives' cannot apply to Scotland and that it would be economic suicide to leave the union.

This was Ross' claim. He also wanted the English to have a vote on Scottish secession when his party denied this to ex-pats and many others who have settled here.

Unionists have their own 'project fear' here.

Stephen
 
stephen bennett said:
Which, of course is not true. I appreciate you are using this as a short-hand, Brian. But other's continue to peddle this as a fact.

It is true that a majority of those who voted in the referendum wanted Brexit, while a minority of people voted for a party promising Brexit in the 2019 election which, because of our antiquated voting system, translated into a 'majority'. What those who had a vote, but did not cast it, wanted is debatable.

I realise it doesn't matter a hoot as to the outcome of the process, but it's still worthwhile pointing out what actually happened.

Maybe one day people will care.


Stephen
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We know what happened, everyone is aware of the result of the referendum and the 2019 GE, it doesn’t need to be explained every time someone like the ff1 bloke pretends there was no majority for brexit. Or it shouldn’t need to be, the meaning is a given.

Some even count new born babies as remainers.
 
stephen bennett said:
I really don't want Scotland to secede, especially because of the Tory hegemony that would create in rUK. I'm a remainer in both cases.

But we really do not have any moral high-ground here.

If Brexit is good enough for the UK, the same logic applies to Scotland leaving the union.

What is strange is that those who suggest there are positives to Brexit, claiming that sovereignty and identity and borders win out over over pure economics, are quick to say those same 'positives' cannot apply to Scotland and that it would be economic suicide to leave the union.

This was Ross' claim. He also wanted the English to have a vote on Scottish secession when his party denied this to ex-pats and many others who have settled here.

Unionists have their own 'project fear' here.

Stephen
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Yes, and that applies equally to the nationalists here. It works both ways. If voting for the UK to leave its biggest market = thick racist, the same applies to Scots and Welsh nationalists voting to leave their biggest market.

How about this? The Scots have a referendum and there is a majority for independence but the losing side spend over 4 years loudly calling for the result to be ignored, creating uncertainty and economic turmoil. How does that sound?

I don’t care what this Ross geezer says. I post here my own thoughts, nobody else’s. His position is not mine.
 
TheDecameron said:
“Many of those who campaigned for Britain to leave the EU say its red tape is costing the UK economy billions of pounds every year”.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-38736389

Brexit Island: 50,000 new unelected bureaucrats to process customs forms.
Entire EU Commission staff for 27 countries: 32,000
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Our business is based (and has been for 40+years) on selling product (architectural ironmongery) from factories based in the EU
Very little of what we sell has ever been made in the UK, let alone moved production out.
Anyone who says / thinks that the EU added layers of red tape has not a clue.
I wish they could now be asked to foot the bill of what we as a company are having to endure and go through with regard to having to massively increase stock levels (do you want to rely on Gove's ideas?) and as for the additional paperwork / declarations / VAT changes etc.
The levels of stress this has produced is seriously not funny.
What did we do this for again??
 
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