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Brexit: give me a positive effect... IIII

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They must have applied an algorithm to get Japan at such a low level.
Figures are right. But look at the metric. It’s GDP per employed worker.

Have you ever been to Japan? If you have, have you noticed how many more people there are in service businesses? Filling stations have one or two forecourt workers to fill your car and clean your windscreen for you. Larger shops often have greeters at the door whose only purpose is to welcome customers and answer questions. Even in casual restaurants, there’s more floor staff than you see in the UK. You see evidence of this in Japan’s low unemployment figures. The other factor depressing output per worker is that, unlike the USA and UK, these Japanese “overhead” jobs are still reasonably well paid, which offsets the highly productive Japanese manufacturing and services sectors.

If you look at productivity per hour worked, the other common metric (https://data.oecd.org/lprdty/gdp-per-hour-worked.htm), places shift a little: now Japan moves up between Germany and France, and the UK moves ahead of Italy (or rather, Italy falls behind the USA and UK). The reason for Japan’s rise is that many of those Japanese low-productivity jobs are part-time, but the per-employee figure treated someone doing three hours a day bowing to customers at Mitsukoshi at busy times exactly the same as someone putting in a nine hour shift in a pharmaceuticals plant. The UK and USA’s rise under the per-hour metric is more likely to be due to the high prevalence of zero-hour work agreements in these countries: when you only count an employee for the exact hour that they’re producing for you, your productivity per hour can only go higher.
 
Figures are right. But look at the metric. It’s GDP per employed worker.

Have you ever been to Japan? If you have, have you noticed how many more people there are in service businesses? Filling stations have one or two forecourt workers to fill your car and clean your windscreen for you. Larger shops often have greeters at the door whose only purpose is to welcome customers and answer questions. Even in casual restaurants, there’s more floor staff than you see in the UK. You see evidence of this in Japan’s low unemployment figures. The other factor depressing output per worker is that, unlike the USA and UK, these Japanese “overhead” jobs are still reasonably well paid, which offsets the highly productive Japanese manufacturing and services sectors.

If you look at productivity per hour worked, the other common metric (https://data.oecd.org/lprdty/gdp-per-hour-worked.htm), places shift a little: now Japan moves up between Germany and France, and the UK moves ahead of Italy (or rather, Italy falls behind the USA and UK). The reason for Japan’s rise is that many of those Japanese low-productivity jobs are part-time, but the per-employee figure treated someone doing three hours a day bowing to customers at Mitsukoshi at busy times exactly the same as someone putting in a nine hour shift in a pharmaceuticals plant. The UK and USA’s rise under the per-hour metric is more likely to be due to the high prevalence of zero-hour work agreements in these countries: when you only count an employee for the exact hour that they’re producing for you, your productivity per hour can only go higher.
Would love to see that in the UK but it's long gone. The rot set in on that one many years ago, profit above all else is the mantra.

I remember in large stores in Newcastle when there was bloke sitting inside a lift who would ask you what floor you wanted.
 
Would love to see that in the UK but it's long gone. The rot set in on that one many years ago, profit above all else is the mantra.

I remember in large stores in Newcastle when there was bloke sitting inside a lift who would ask you what floor you wanted.
I have rather appreciated the latest 'door people' during the pandemic. It's nice to be welcomed, and thanked for ones custom.
 
I would prefer the word ‘agreement’ over ‘offered’ in a friendly partnership. ‘Offered’ sets the wrong tone between those involved, imo.

Me too. But that's the way it was spun.

Anyway, Cameron didn’t come back with changes to any terms. That’s not a lie.

Cameron came back with these proposed changes. The spin by the press and others was he got 'nothing'. A lie pure and simple.

What I recall was that Cameron came back with a fudge he tried to portray as a success. It was an offer of changes to terms subject to further agreement and ratification by EU members, and subject to a remain outcome in the referendum. In other words, no firm agreement was reached for changes to terms.

See above. It was not 'nothing' as portrayed by the right wing press. Nor was it a 'humiliation'. Compromise is always a 'fudge'.

I’m surprised you believe had those changes to terms been implemented ahead of the referendum that the very close referendum result would not have been affected. Cameron had been trying for these new terms for a long time and the best the EU could agree was further talks after a remain majority. My understanding even on pfm is support for EU reform. This is an example of an attempt at EU reform that was strongly resisted. Do you know why these changes could not have beee agreed and implemented?

I'm surprised that you think these changes would have pacified those who want us to break all ties with the EU!

The same lies, obfuscation, spin and, well, lies would have prevailed in the same way.

The Eurosceptic press, politicians and others would not have changed their minds if Cameron's proposal had been implemented. Do you really think Rees-Mogg would have said "OK, let's stay then" if the EU had implemented any of the above? They have been drip feeding lies and EU-related bile, alongside the vilification of immigrants for years. A few compromises would make no difference.

The truth about the EU and our place in it, and the econmic and other benefits of membership, did not.

Stephen
 
Me too. But that's the way it was spun.



Cameron came back with these proposed changes. The spin by the press and others was he got 'nothing'. A lie pure and simple.

See above. It was not 'nothing' as portrayed by the right wing press. Nor was it a 'humiliation'. Compromise is always a 'fudge'.

I'm surprised that you think these changes would have pacified those who want us to break all ties with the EU!

The same lies, obfuscation, spin and, well, lies would have prevailed in the same way.

The Eurosceptic press, politicians and others would not have changed their minds if Cameron's proposal had been implemented. Do you really think Rees-Mogg would have said "OK, let's stay then" if the EU had implemented any of the above? They have been drip feeding lies and EU-related bile, alongside the vilification of immigrants for years. A few compromises would make no difference.

The truth about the EU and our place in it, and the econmic and other benefits of membership, did not.

Stephen
I didn't say any of that stuff in bold, Stephen. I'm not talking about Mogg, I'm talking about the electorate. The millions.

I disagree. A proposal for a change is not a change. What Cameron returned with was nothing when the aim was to agree new terms and firm agreements. It really is an example of intransigence on the part of the EU and I guess I won't be making much traction with it here so I'll drop it after this post so as not to carry it on.

When it comes to how changes to these terms may have affected the referendum, I'm talking about the swing needed when the referendum result was 51.9% versus 48.1%. If you think those changes being implemented way ahead of the referendum would not have made any difference to how the electorate responded, we will just have to agree to disagree on that too.
 
Brexit was a 'trump' style moment of the UK. If you live in poverty and are struggling to make ends meet - the whole European Projects means nothing to you. You see a lot of the issues as black and white - and maybe the Brexit band wagon took advantage of that. For these people that voted - it was a 'protest' vote against the status quo or system. Unfortunately, it was about the membership of the EU this time.
 
Look here, we need some extra beaters up on the moor today. Mr. Dacre is brining up his father in law, affectionately known as Dead Eye Dick. He’s still waiting to get his cataracts done so we will be adding £1.50 an hour danger money, 80p for the under sixteens. What do you say Jock?
 
Look here, we need some extra beaters up on the moor today. Mr. Dacre is brining up his father in law, affectionately known as Dead Eye Dick. He’s still waiting to get his cataracts done so we will be adding £1.50 an hour danger money, 80p for the under sixteens. What do you say Jock?
Och, yer a day too late min, i'm back to work today after a long weekend so a bit busy alas. If Dacre is actually brining his father I would recommend pickling instead, lasts longer and tastes better IMO.
However I have a week in Kilmartin mid September and will be available then for some sunlit upland action!
 
Och, yer a day too late min, i'm back to work today after a long weekend so a bit busy alas. If Dacre is actually brining his father I would recommend pickling instead, lasts longer and tastes better IMO.
However I have a week in Kilmartin mid September and will be available then for some sunlit upland action!

Kilmartin in September.....upland action available but probably not sunlit :D
 
The jury's out on that, but as the two main jurors are The Dec and EV, it'll be a majority verdict only
 
Brexit was a 'trump' style moment of the UK. If you live in poverty and are struggling to make ends meet - the whole European Projects means nothing to you. You see a lot of the issues as black and white - and maybe the Brexit band wagon took advantage of that. For these people that voted - it was a 'protest' vote against the status quo or system. Unfortunately, it was about the membership of the EU this time.

Indeed - but Trump will be gone this year or in 2024 (assuming he doesn't go full Vlad). Brexit on the other hand...
 
The 'questions' you have posted are infantile, 'kirk'.

You mentioned WTO terms/UK trade deal in a previous post. I asked you about that. Certainly a legitimate question. There are others of course but trade seems like a good one to kick-off with.
 
Figures are right. But look at the metric. It’s GDP per employed worker.

Have you ever been to Japan? If you have, have you noticed how many more people there are in service businesses? Filling stations have one or two forecourt workers to fill your car and clean your windscreen for you. Larger shops often have greeters at the door whose only purpose is to welcome customers and answer questions. Even in casual restaurants, there’s more floor staff than you see in the UK. You see evidence of this in Japan’s low unemployment figures. The other factor depressing output per worker is that, unlike the USA and UK, these Japanese “overhead” jobs are still reasonably well paid, which offsets the highly productive Japanese manufacturing and services sectors.

If you look at productivity per hour worked, the other common metric (https://data.oecd.org/lprdty/gdp-per-hour-worked.htm), places shift a little: now Japan moves up between Germany and France, and the UK moves ahead of Italy (or rather, Italy falls behind the USA and UK). The reason for Japan’s rise is that many of those Japanese low-productivity jobs are part-time, but the per-employee figure treated someone doing three hours a day bowing to customers at Mitsukoshi at busy times exactly the same as someone putting in a nine hour shift in a pharmaceuticals plant. The UK and USA’s rise under the per-hour metric is more likely to be due to the high prevalence of zero-hour work agreements in these countries: when you only count an employee for the exact hour that they’re producing for you, your productivity per hour can only go higher.
I have worked in a Japanese factory and visited some of their suppliers. Continuous improvement and reducing costs was impressive. Manufacturing is still 20.75% of GDP. I did not notice inefficiency outside of the factory on the railways, shops or bars etc.
 
You mentioned WTO terms/UK trade deal in a previous post. I asked you about that. Certainly a legitimate question. There are others of course but trade seems like a good one to kick-off with.
Did I really? I forget. I can’t say I recall any legitimate question from you either.

The general manner and tone has improved here the last couple of days with some people making a genuine effort to get along better, you are dragging it down and have been since you (re)joined pfm and immediately started sniping and stalking.

I can’t be arsed with you, ‘Kirk’.

Now run along. I’m not playing your game.
 
Environment Agency chief supports plan to weaken river pollution rules

We are just so fed up with not being able to hit those pesky EU water quality rules. Solution? Get rid of the rules! Easy.

This sort of thing was dismissed as project fear in the referendum.

Soon the UK will be top in all metrics. Just rename them and move the goalposts. Cummings' obviously learned a lot about Soviet propaganda in his time in Russia.

A Brexit bonus for polluters though.

Stephen
 
I've not been contributing to Brexit threads for a while. I really don't see any benefit in scoring points, sniping or complaining; this thing has happened. I genuinely would like to hear in what way we will now all benefit. The sovereignty argument is fine with me, what I would like to know is: in what way this will help the majority of people living in the UK in tangible terms? Further I have no interest in arguing with whatever the tangible benefits are that are outlined. I genuinely just want to understand them. Three bullets would do.
 
I've not been contributing to Brexit threads for a while. I really don't see any benefit in scoring points, sniping or complaining; this thing has happened. I genuinely would like to hear in what way we will now all benefit. The sovereignty argument is fine with me, what I would like to know is: in what way this will help the majority of people living in the UK in tangible terms? Further I have no interest in arguing with whatever the tangible benefits are that are outlined. I genuinely just want to understand them. Three bullets would do.


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