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Brexit: give me a positive effect (2022 remastered edition)

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SteveS1 said:
Germany wasn't the country giving it the "do you know who we are?" during the negotiations Jensen was referring to. Also, they certainly do not have the post-imperial hangover that holds the UK back.
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Germany is not without issues of its own, and they're topical.
 
richardg said:
Listen, the quote is bollocks, you know it is. The word European obvs needs to be removed to justify your point. You're snookered here if that's how you interpret the quote, completely ignoring the use of the word European.... in fact if that is how you feel, then the quote perhaps should have read something like 'British people need to realise they are knack-all in the grand scheme of things'.

He would have been right of course, but that has nowt to do with Brexit.
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So you did know what he was saying. Agreed.
 
eternumviti said:
Germany is not without issues of its own, and they're topical.
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What I love about Kehl, the town I work in is how us immigrants have taken over, and some seem to be really taking the piss and the German authorities seem to be impotent, mainly by not understanding why people would not follow their rules (I do mainly). Loads are not really doing it by the book by German standards. The kebab shops here have fruit machines that you can rock up to (mainly from over the border in France) and play with maybe 250 euros and get a business receipt saying you won 5 grand. The machines are always in private rooms to the side or back. Loads of French cars outside these kebab shops. Love it! You can't escape the grime!!
 
eternumviti said:
Germany is not without issues of its own, and they're topical.
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No country is without issues, but the preoccupation with those of others (which we have limited influence over) as some form of justification for the self inflicted nature of much of our own, is a bit of a stretch.
 
SteveS1 said:
No country is without issues, but the preoccupation with those of others (which we have limited influence over) as some form of justification for the self inflicted nature of much of our own, is a bit of a stretch.
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One issue is it would reject being labelled as small, perhaps?
 
SteveS1 said:
How's it going over there Rich, having helped sh1t the bed in your own country before sliding off back into the EU - any appetite for Leave over there?
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Not so much in Germany, but I have set up a mobile sawmill business with a mate from my Shanghai days (and business is booming in case you were concerned)...omg....Frexit is all they want, all of them!

Here's our website if interested: www.mobilewoodmeister.fr
 
SteveS1 said:
Glad to hear business is good, who are the main clients?
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It's a mix of people. Some with a valuable tree like cherry or walnut in the garden, architects making all kinds of things, or static sawmills often processing pine for the construction indutry or oak for the furniture industry. Fascinating stuff, wood. We met the owner of this chateau yesterday:

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Château_de_Thanvillé

He has lost a few oak trees due to storm and disease. We only met him once so we did not discuss Brexit yet. But being English it comes up eventually.
 
SteveS1 said:
Where does this milk and honey stuff come from? I expect this sort of crap from ET but not you.

The question before us was whether the UK should remain a member of the EU, or leave the EU? No milk and honey promises about the status quo just a load of baloney about how the UK was somehow being held back by being members, a simple choice. Leaving was indeed a stupid idea, a flounce. We are now seeing the same over the ECHR one of the few positive contributions we made to European co-operation FFS. Can't get our own way on an issue, junk the whole thing. Pathetic really.
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The milk and honey stuff comes from several posts, not just yours, which seem paint the EU in uncritical terms.

Your own contribution was to say that membership of the EU was being part of the ‘common good’. It clearly is not. If ‘common good’ is the mean anything, and I very much feel that it should, it needs to be taken seriously and defined carefully. The EU takes good to mean primary benefit to business, trade, and markets, not a good to the commonality. The EU is part of the same neoloiberal economic ideology of trickle down, it is explicitly not based on any idea of greatest good to the greatest number, even less the common good. It puts the interests of a minority at the top of it’s list of priorities. Top of the list is not ‘common good’.

Another aspect of the Common Economic Ideology is at the heart the EU obsession with spending limits and comes from the same lie that government spending is constrained by revenue.

The EU is as much a part of the lies we are told as anywhere else.

If we really want an economy based on the common good, we need to understand where money really comes from instead of believing the lies we are told on a daily basis that justify unchecked government spending going to the few and government spending on the many constrained in proportion

Transferring our democratic loyalty from one false economic ideology to another, will not bring about the improvement to society, natural justice and above all, the environment, values that have to be at the heart of the common good if we are to take on the existential threats facing us in the here and now.
 
richardg said:
What I love about Kehl, the town I work in is how us immigrants have taken over, and some seem to be really taking the piss and the German authorities seem to be impotent, mainly by not understanding why people would not follow their rules (I do mainly). Loads are not really doing it by the book by German standards. The kebab shops here have fruit machines that you can rock up to (mainly from over the border in France) and play with maybe 250 euros and get a business receipt saying you won 5 grand. The machines are always in private rooms to the side or back. Loads of French cars outside these kebab shops. Love it! You can't escape the grime!!
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Apart from the undisguised racism in this comment, I don't understand the point. So a person can drive from France to Germany, lose 250 euros in a fruit machine and get a receipt for what? How does a receipt for "winning" 5000 euros benefit you when it has cost you 250?
 
ks.234 said:
The milk and honey stuff comes from several posts, not just yours, which seem paint the EU in uncritical terms.

Your own contribution was to say that membership of the EU was being part of the ‘common good’. It clearly is not. If ‘common good’ is the mean anything, and I very much feel that it should, it needs to be taken seriously and defined carefully. The EU takes good to mean primary benefit to business, trade, and markets, not a good to the commonality. The EU is part of the same neoloiberal economic ideology of trickle down, it is explicitly not based on any idea of greatest good to the greatest number, even less the common good. It puts the interests of a minority at the top of it’s list of priorities. Top of the list is not ‘common good’.

Another aspect of the Common Economic Ideology is at the heart the EU obsession with spending limits and comes from the same lie that government spending is constrained by revenue.

The EU is as much a part of the lies we are told as anywhere else.

If we really want an economy based on the common good, we need to understand where money really comes from instead of believing the lies we are told on a daily basis that justify unchecked government spending going to the few and government spending on the many constrained in proportion

Transferring our democratic loyalty from one false economic ideology to another, will not bring about the improvement to society, natural justice and above all, the environment, values that have to be at the heart of the common good if we are to take on the existential threats facing us in the here and now.
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Been over this time and again when dealing with similar deflections from more predictable sources, I'm none the wiser what your issue is here other than reminding people of your recent "spending doe not have to be constrained by revenue" hobby horse.

None of the things you mention, business, trade, society, justice and environment to which you could also add standards and regulation are designed to be helped by leaving the EU, quite the reverse. The people driving and funding Brexit wish to take your concerns to a whole new level.
 
SteveS1 said:
Been over this time and again when dealing with similar deflections from more predictable sources, I'm none the wiser what your issue is here other than reminding people of your recent "spending doe not have to be constrained by revenue" hobby horse.

None of the things you mention, business, trade, society, justice and environment to which you could also add standards and regulation are designed to be helped by leaving the EU, quite the reverse. The people driving and funding Brexit wish to take your concerns to a whole new level.
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“Hobby Horse”? This from someone who complained about “milk and honey”?

What is your point? What do you think my post was a deflection from, if not the supposed virtues of the EU?

The fact is that we have left the EU. We left the EU some years ago and we cannot now go back to where we were. If you are interested in the common good going forward, as you indicated you are, then trivialising the daily lie we are told about where money comes from as a ‘hobby horse’ is a far bigger problem facing us in the here and now than endless arguments about the injustice of 2016.

The injustice we have been subjected to for 40 years and continue to be subjected to today far outweigh the consequences of the injustice of leaving the EU. Even if we had stayed in the EU, those injustices would still be there, but less impactful than under Johnson. As I have said, we are talking about difference of degree, not substance and as such, is absolutely not a deflection from the cause of fighting for the substantial cause of the common good.
 
vince rocker said:
Apart from the undisguised racism in this comment, I don't understand the point. So a person can drive from France to Germany, lose 250 euros in a fruit machine and get a receipt for what? How does a receipt for "winning" 5000 euros benefit you when it has cost you 250?
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I believe the thesis is, “everyone’s on the grift, it’s not just me!”
 
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