davidsrsb
pfm Member
Many people who put money into Bitcoin five years ago lost the lot because they had used one of the many wallet companies that got hacked or turned out to be scams (or maybe both?)
Bitcoin
- Thread starter wacko
- Start date
matthewr
spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld
Most of the traders I know have a spread betting account as it's a way to trade their own money with leverage when they have a clear information advantage.
And the old joke in the city is that spread betting is called betting in western countries to get around regulations related to financial markets and the very same thing is called spread trading in other countries to get around rules and prohibitions about gambling.
This is where most come a cropper to be honest, not the scams or wallet hacks. Mentally coping with the volatility is the biggest hurdle to crypto and why I'd never advocate anyone getting involved if asked.
You need the exact opposite of human nature, either that or the cast iron mentality of buying it and not checking it for 5 years.
Investors in Japan have had a lousy 20 years so even a modest return is guaranteed. I have the bulk of my cash in Trackers and they are nearly always in the top 25% quartile.
If you are truly trying to play it safe, stick with fixed priced ISAs but don't expect to make a fortune.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
I guess we all know the old joke about how you make a small fortune... : )
If you look at the last 9 years there have been 3 high peaks followed by 3 steep drops. Now is the 4th peak...
Anyone who bought before October 2020 or second half of 2022 and held has made their money back several times over. ie 300-2000%.
To be honest Paul many of the comments in reference to pensions from members of this forum absolutely astound me. Saving piles of cash to invest to get you through your retirement is a high risk approach. You could retire today and tomorrow your investments could crash and then you have a miserable existence ahead of you. A skint retiree is a truly sad sight.
The most simple thing is to ensure that you have a pension that does not just get you through your retirement but should be enough to allow you to lead the lifestyle you wish to live and this is the most important thing, give you a healthy surplus at the end of each and every month to stash away. A sensible pensioner should be able to save money each month/year without even trying.
Jamie
pfm Member
Or accidentally send their computer to the tip, or forget their password
paulfromcamden
Baffled
Though for many people saving for retirement there isn't much alternative is there? As a member posted in the recent pensions thread the switch from DB to DC pensions has effectively moved market risk from the employer to employee. What other options do people have? BTL?
I'd agree with you that an annuity is worth considering once you reach retirement age if that's what you're referring to - though rates are not as generous as they once were, especially if you want it index-linked.
To be fair I was talking about the current round of retirees who worked during a period of jobs for life, low unemployment and DB pensions. For this lot, there is no excuse not to have a good pension.
Most of them also live in large and valuable properties so the people you should feel sorry for are those under the age of 55.
Gingerbeard
Ayup Me Duck
True, but then the US debit is currently increasing at $1 trillion dollars every 100 days, that surely isn't sustainable
kensalriser
pfm Member
Do you mean US debt? What's the problem with it?
wulbert
pfm Member
It's important to remember that a lot of normal, well-adjusted people are turned off by talk about detailed financial matters. They find it boring. It doesn't make them thick, it just makes them sane and content. Losing interest in money once you have enough of it to get by, is a good and healthy thing. Love of money is a mental sickness.
Gingerbeard
Ayup Me Duck
Yes, the good old US of A - The problem being the sheer scale of it, currently running at $34 trillion and growing. Unlikely to be ever paid down, the continuing of money printing which just exasperates the situation all coupled with an ageing population. I’m no economist, but this scares me way more than Crypto
paulfromcamden
Baffled
My take on that is a little different. We spend a lot of our waking hours working hard to earn a crust. To me it makes sense to understand a bit about how money works so I can make the most of my savings and retirement planning. It's not a love of money, it's removing a source of worry and helping me ensure I'm living within my means now and making provision for when I'm older.
Having enough to get by is indeed the ideal. Sadly for a lot of people my age with inadequate DC pensions and no property ownership that's going to be a tall order when they reach retirement age.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
What do you think will happen that scares you?
Gingerbeard
Ayup Me Duck
The collapse of their system, civil unrest (if not war) and a great depression - All possible. To boot, It’s also an election year and the 2 strongest candidates are Biden and Trump FFS!
kensalriser
pfm Member
Irrational apocalypse anxiety. The debt doesn't all need to be paid down and never will be, it's not akin to a domestic mortgage.
Now climate change, that is something to be anxious about.