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Biden/Harris

Hook said:
The majority of Biden's views would be classified as progressive, but there are notable exceptions. He supported Clinton's justice reforms in 1994, which had very bad outcomes for lots of minority communities. He voted against the first Iraq war, but supported the more disastrous second war. He also still does not support legalization of marijuana. Lastly, and despite what has happened over the last four years, he still firmly believes in trying to reach across the isle and building bi-partisen consensus on new legislation.

While many on the far left distrust his policy positions and intentions, he is still almost universally liked as a person. The far right will still try to demonize him, and some on the far left will still lampoon him as a "creepy uncle". But again, the majority in the middle can relate to his personal story, and appreciate his ability to empathize with regular people that are facing huge challenges.

By the way, in the 1980s, I too was more lucid! Time is cruel. But in Biden's case, it is not just time that has worn him down. He still fights stuttering, and has done so all his life. Still, to me, he appears fit enough (physically and mentally) to serve, at least in the short term.
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not to mention getting himself a nice piece of the ukrainian pie when the big coup happened
 
Woodface said:
I am staggered that the Democrats could not come up with a better candidate. Bison is terrible, I cannot see him making it through the grilling process without cocking up or falling ill.

America has terrible problems with health & education. I urge you all to listen to ‘nice white Parents’ podcast, just shows how riven the country is with division masquerading as misplaced kindness.

As much as I like America & it’s people I am never disappointed in how they avoid all the issues.
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biden is there to maintain the neoliberal (= corporate) status quo. He's a yes-man and won't make waves - the lobbyists and corporate magi like that.
 
Jonathan said:
"if voting would change anything it would be against the law" - stiv bator

i don't disagree with this when it comes to american politics
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I think Trump has disproved this. Prior to Trump I had some sympathy for those who thought that it didn't make a lot of difference which party was in power, though it seems to me the naughties would have been quite different had Gore beaten Bush.

Anyone who still thinks that is either very wealthy, very lucky, or not paying attention.
 
sean99 said:
I think Trump has disproved this. Prior to Trump I had some sympathy for those who thought that it didn't make a lot of difference which party was in power.

Anyone who still thinks that is either very wealthy, very lucky, or not paying attention.
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trump hasn't changed anything - not structurally. his job is to outrage people and distract them from Politics. he is a Rodeo Clown - it worked very well with George Bush the Second - so it was put into strategy for the Orange Menace. That's how things look to me at any rate. But then again people say i am a cynic.
 
Hook said:
I don't disagree with any of the actions you have outlined. They are all reasonable objectives. My only points are that 1) the timing for a bold move to the left is not now, and 2) that legislation that will endure (including that which requires constitutional change) has to be bi-partisen.

!n order to implement lasting change, the Dems need to control the Presidency and both houses of congress. But that alone (as we saw with the ACA) is not enough to pass laws that survive the test of time. For that, the Dems need some level of moderate GOP crossover so that legislation can be branded as bi-partisen. I can not say for sure that there will be enough moderate Republicans left after November to actually work with, but that is my hope.

I'll give just one example, and I apologize for repeating since I've made this point before. I really want to see wholesale change in the US healthcare system, and I believe that a Medicare-for-all plan will eventually work. But right now, given the level of polarization, there is no way that even moderate Republicans would support it because it will be seen as removing freedom of choice. You and I both know this is false, but that is how most Americans would feel if they were told that the government is their only option for healthcare. Far better in my view is adding a public option to the ACA. Framed as "just another choice", it will rapidly become a no-brainer choice for most Americans. Over time, we accomplish the same thing, but hopefully without a large-scale Tea Party-style revolt.
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Agree re: the public option, provided it's not so watered down as to be useless (deep pockets in the insurance industry will pay for this).
Regarding bipartisanship - I think we're in for a LONG wait - one that I may not survive to see. The GOP has been trending rightward for 30+ years and there is no sign of a let up.
 
Joe P said:
Hi, Hook.
...
If things go bad in November, I'll put a set of fresh sheets on the bed in the guest / cat room for ya. The fridge is stocked with Tranya and I have the original series on blu-ray.

Joe
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I can not tell you how reassuring this is! I wish everyone had an escape plan but, unfortunately, most of us are simply stuck regardless of what happens in November.

I fully expect polls to tighten between now and then. And while I remain hopeful, I do think Trump's voter suppression tactics will result in a closer election than it otherwise would be. November 3rd will be a real nail biter, and no doubt a lame duck Trump will do everything he can to muddy the results if he loses. But I am confident that the Supreme Court will uphold the Constitution, and he will be removed from office at noon on January 20, 2021.
 
Hook,

If he won't go quietly, invoke the Larson manoeuvre.

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Joe
 
sean99 said:
Agree re: the public option, provided it's not so watered down as to be useless (deep pockets in the insurance industry will pay for this).
Regarding bipartisanship - I think we're in for a LONG wait - one that I may not survive to see. The GOP has been trending rightward for 30+ years and there is no sign of a let up.
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True, but we have to start sometime and somewhere. I've racked my brain, but I do not see another option.

It rankles the left, but I think that's the reason why we have seen the DNC Convention give so much air time to moderate Republicans, never-Trumpers and to ordinary people who now regret voting for the orange maniac.
 
Jonathan said:
trump hasn't changed anything - not structurally. his job is to outrage people and distract them from Politics. he is a Rodeo Clown - it worked very well with George Bush the Second - so it was put into strategy for the Orange Menace. That's how things look to me at any rate. But then again people say i am a cynic.
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We'll just have to agree to disagree.
 
Jonathan said:
biden is there to maintain the neoliberal (= corporate) status quo. He's a yes-man and won't make waves - the lobbyists and corporate magi like that.
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You do realize that these (as well as your throwaway Ukraine comment) are Republican talking points, right?

I get it that people on the left are sick and tired of waiting but, unfortunately, the US was designed from day one to make lasting progressive change hard to do. It requires grudging consensus among people with widely differing opinions about the best way forward. It is doable, but not without first restoring some level of comity and trust among people and the legislators who represent them.

Yes, you are likely a cynic and I am likely a pie-in-the-sky idealist. The world's a big place, so hopefully there's room for us both.
 
Hook said:
You do realize that these (as well as your throwaway Ukraine comment) are Republican talking points, right?

I get it that people on the left are sick and tired of waiting but, unfortunately, the US was designed from day one to make lasting progressive change hard to do. It requires grudging consensus among people with widely differing opinions about the best way forward. It is doable, but not without first restoring some level of comity and trust among people and the legislators who represent them.

Yes, you are likely a cynic and I am likely a pie-in-the-sky idealist. The world's a big place, so hopefully there's room for us both.
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im certainly no republican ... but it wouldn't surprise me at all if their criticism of him is the same as mine. it's a relevant criticism. i'm pretty shocked that the democrats have been sinking lower than the republicans in terms of tactic. I guess they thought it was reasonable to 'play the same game' but i had hoped they were better than that.
 
matthewr said:
This is all triggering my 2016 PTSD. Please stop responding to a literal authoritarian threat to democracy and the rule of law with your shit "Oh noes a neoliberal corporitist! Whatever shall we do, Claude!" takes.
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isn’t it time Max made an appearance?
 
NeilR said:
isn’t it time Max made an appearance?
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To be fair to Max there was the fact that everyone's worst fears had not already come true and that his biggest objections were always consistently in terms of foreign policy and the endless, needless wars.
 
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