Biden/Harris

[thebigfredc]

Surprised not much interest in the Democrats choice to take on Trump.

Any love for this combo...too obvious, too artificial, or just right...wot der yer reckon?

 

[Tony L]

It is not Trump. Hopefully that is enough.

 

[droodzilla]

Yeah, fingers crossed, but I won't exactly be popping champagne at a Biden victory.

Trump has shown how fragile the US constitution is. I don't see the Republicans forgetting this lesson, and I expect Trump's successor will be more ruthless and smarter about exploiting these weaknesses.

If Biden/Kamala win, they must make major changes that benefit the working and middle classes, otherwise the Republicans will return to power, more toxic and dangerous than ever.

I don't have much hope but, maybe, the progressive Democrats will pull the leadership enough to the left to make a difference.

 

[sean99]

Yeah, fingers crossed, but I won't exactly be popping champagne for a Biden victory.

Trump has shown how fragile the US constitution is. I don't see the Republicans forgetting the lesson, and I expect Trumps's successor will be more ruthless and smarter about exploiting these weaknesses.

If Biden/Kamala win, they must make major changes that benefit the working and middle classes, otherwise the Republicans will return to power, more toxic and dangerous than ever.

I don't have much hope but, maybe, the progressive Democrats will pull the leadership enough to the left to make a difference.

I think it's worse than this. The democrats not only have to actually do something to benefit the bottom 95% (which traditionally they don't as they're only marginally less corporate controlled than the GOP), but they also have to win the senate, or McConnell's senate majority will simply block everything that Biden proposes.

Just like the UK the problem in the US is a corrupt and evil right wing media that takes full advantage of free speech / free press laws to spew hatred and propaganda sufficient to persuade about 30-40% of the electorate to vote against their interests. I honestly don't know what the answer to this is, but I don't think it's Biden/Harris. I hope to be pleasantly surprised.

If Trump is reelected I will block any of my wife's home improvement plans, because I think at that point the USA is finished.

 

[thebigfredc]

I knew politics was heating up in the US but I hadn’t realised it had reached the point of affecting the viability of sticking a conservatory on the back or an en-suite on the third bedroom.

I think this election is going to be the most interesting for a while. Joes gotta be smart though - keep away from gun laws and health care until after the election.

 

[russel]

I think it's worse than this. The democrats not only have to actually do something to benefit the bottom 95% (which traditionally they don't as they're only marginally less corporate controlled than the GOP), but they also have to win the senate, or McConnell's senate majority will simply block everything that Biden proposes.

Just like the UK the problem in the US is a corrupt and evil right wing media that takes full advantage of free speech / free press laws to spew hatred and propaganda sufficient to persuade about 30-40% of the electorate to vote against their interests. I honestly don't know what the answer to this is, but I don't think it's Biden/Harris. I hope to be pleasantly surprised.

If Trump is reelected I will block any of my wife's home improvement plans, because I think at that point the USA is finished.

What scares me is the terrifying vote manipulation that seems to go on in the US, Greg Palast has written extensively on the subject.


Some pieces from the article.


“Trump officially won Detroit by 10,700 votes… 75,355 ballots to be exact were never counted in Detroit because 87 counting machines, that is the scanners, broke down so the ballots simply weren't counted. So whose votes were those? That's Motown. So who really won Michigan? Why weren't we covering big time the fact that 75,000 ballots were not counted?”



“By the way, the chance that your ballot will be invalidated is 900% higher if you're black than if you're white. And now mail-in balloting, they get challenged all over the place.”


There is a real risk that Trump could get in again by cheating, pretty much as he did last time.






https://www.gregpalast.com/how-safe-is-vote-by-mail/

 

[sean99]

I knew politics was heating up in the US but I hadn’t realised it had reached the point of affecting the viability of sticking a conservatory on the back or an en-suite on the third bedroom.

That's because, as a Brit, you don't have any concept of how much a political party can trash the life of the middle class. UK life has a comfort and softness that is missing in the US. If Trump is reelected and the supreme court strikes down the affordable care act we'll be back to a situation where if you lose employer sponsored health insurance and have a preexisting condition you will be uninsurable. Being uninsurable means that if you require anything beyond the most basic medical care (think doctor office visit or a few stitches) you are out of luck. For example a cancer diagnosis would mean choosing between bankruptcy and death. Broken arm - that'll be $25k please. Night in the hospital $10k. Appendectomy $50k. I wouldn't want to live like that.

 

[Bart]

There is a real risk that Trump could get in again by cheating, pretty much as he did last time.

A very real risk, he has no conscience and will lie, cheat, slander and make every false promise he can to win. It’s no easy task fighting those sorts of tactics.

 

[thebigfredc]

Just had a chat a with our resident Yank at work - he will be voting Biden/Harris and reckons they have a double-digit lead in the polls.

 

[Joe P]

If you're a progressive this is a hugely disappointing team, but as Dimitry wrote the other day, "When you get a meal selection card at a wedding that says to choose chicken or fish, you can write in tofu,* but you are going to get chicken or fish."

As a veggie I'm not happy with the chicken or fish, but Biden and Harris are vastly preferable to a three-layer shit cake frosted with viral pathogens and caustic racism.

Joe

* Edited lightly for dramatic effect.

 

[kensalriser]

Not an exaggeration to say this election is a choice between a democracy, however flawed, and corporatist dictatorship.

 

[hifinutt]

my word , this chap has certainly had his share of suffering , losing family to car crash and then later a son to cancer ... what a guy to carry on. most folks would have given up and got out the slippers

 

[Hook]

I think it is fair to say that the US has never been more polarized, nor in greater danger of ripping itself apart. AFAICR, it is also the first time in my life that I have seen a sitting US President so actively participate in wide scale voter suppression.

More than anytime in US history, this country needs a long period of cooling off, healing and reconciliation. A sudden lurch to the far left, while desperately needed in multiple areas of domestic governance, would result in an even more violent backlash, making a number of reconciliable differences totally impossible to resolve.

A boring centrist, moderate government is what the US needs right now. A coalition of center/left and center/right is IMO the key to re-marginalizing the right wing crazies that have risen to prominence under Trump. Only then can real, albeit incremental progress be made.

Biden is a bridge candidate to what is hopefully a better, more progressive future. That future belongs to younger people, women and people of color. We old white men have had plenty of time in charge, and look where it has gotten us!

 

[Joe P]

Hook,

I found this footage a while ago. Was Joe Biden much more of a progressive back in the 1980s?

It also struck me that he used to be far more lucid and articulate.

Joe

 

[sean99]

More than anytime in US history, this country needs a long period of cooling off, healing and reconciliation. A sudden lurch to the far left, while desperately needed in multiple areas of domestic governance, would result in an even more violent backlash, making a number of reconciliable differences totally impossible to resolve.

A boring centrist, moderate government is what the US needs right now. A coalition of center/left and center/right is IMO the key to re-marginalizing the right wing crazies that have risen to prominence under Trump. Only then can real, albeit incremental progress be made.

I'd like to agree, but I think you're mistaken. I believe the root cause of Americans' division is the fundamental insecurity at the heart of American life. Unless you have a million or more in net worth you have no financial (or life) security. An illness and / or a job loss will wipe out most Americans, and there is a coming tidal wave of elderly poverty as soon as the generation with final salary pensions dies off.

Moderate / centrist tinkering around the edges will not fix this. Should the annual deductible be $12k or $15k, and should ACA subsidies end at $60k annual income, or $75k is not going to fix this. We need bold actions such as
- repeal the Trump AND Bush tax cuts.
- reduce military spending
- Medicare for all OR price controls (e.g. no provider may charge more than 100+X% of medicare).
- Federal drug price controls or negotiations (perhaps QALY based)
- Replacing 401k/IRAs (which is just an vehicle for Wall St to fleece the middle class) with a not for profit or government retirement plans - perhaps a parallel to social security that is allowed to invest in the markets.
- Public education through age 21, academic or vocational (since this is the minimum requirement for the modern workforce).
- Strong federal gun control laws.

Many on the right will scream bloody murder as this is enacted, but give it 5-10 years and Americans will love being able to access healthcare without fear of financial assault. They'll love being able to contemplate not living in poverty in their older years. Just like Americans love Social Security and Medicare, both of which the right screamed would turn America into the USSR. The right wing is so scared of government programs that serve ordinary citizens because once they're enacted they're very popular and very hard to undo.

Until Americans have a similar level of life security to Europeans, Canadians, Australians etc etc it will continue to be easy for the right to foment culture wars.

 

[Hook]

Hook,

I found this footage a while ago. Was Joe Biden much more of a progressive back in the 1980s?

It also struck me that he used to be far more lucid and articulate.

Joe

The majority of Biden's views would be classified as progressive, but there are notable exceptions. He supported Clinton's justice reforms in 1994, which had very bad outcomes for lots of minority communities. He voted against the first Iraq war, but supported the more disastrous second war. He also still does not support legalization of marijuana. Lastly, and despite what has happened over the last four years, he still firmly believes in trying to reach across the isle and building bi-partisen consensus on new legislation.

While many on the far left distrust his policy positions and intentions, he is still almost universally liked as a person. The far right will still try to demonize him, and some on the far left will still lampoon him as a "creepy uncle". But again, the majority in the middle can relate to his personal story, and appreciate his ability to empathize with regular people that are facing huge challenges.

By the way, in the 1980s, I too was more lucid! Time is cruel. But in Biden's case, it is not just time that has worn him down. He still fights stuttering, and has done so all his life. Still, to me, he appears fit enough (physically and mentally) to serve, at least in the short term.

 

[Joe P]

Hi, Hook.

Thanks. I don't have any say or influence in US elections, but I'm fascinated by what's happening nearby. When I saw that video I was wondering if Biden is actually more progressive than I had thought.

If things go bad in November, I'll put a set of fresh sheets on the bed in the guest / cat room for ya. The fridge is stocked with Tranya and I have the original series on blu-ray.

Joe

 

[Jonathan]

"if voting would change anything it would be against the law" - stiv bator

i don't disagree with this when it comes to american politics

 

[Woodface]

I am staggered that the Democrats could not come up with a better candidate. Bison is terrible, I cannot see him making it through the grilling process without cocking up or falling ill.

America has terrible problems with health & education. I urge you all to listen to ‘nice white Parents’ podcast, just shows how riven the country is with division masquerading as misplaced kindness.

As much as I like America & it’s people I am never disappointed in how they avoid all the issues.

 

[Hook]

I'd like to agree, but I think you're mistaken. I believe the root cause of Americans' division is the fundamental insecurity at the heart of American life. Unless you have a million or more in net worth you have no financial (or life) security. An illness and / or a job loss will wipe out most Americans, and there is a coming tidal wave of elderly poverty as soon as the generation with final salary pensions dies off.

Moderate / centrist tinkering around the edges will not fix this. Should the annual deductible be $12k or $15k, and should ACA subsidies end at $60k annual income, or $75k is not going to fix this. We need bold actions such as
- repeal the Trump AND Bush tax cuts.
- reduce military spending
- Medicare for all OR price controls (e.g. no provider may charge more than 100+X% of medicare).
- Federal drug price controls or negotiations (perhaps QALY based)
- Replacing 401k/IRAs (which is just an vehicle for Wall St to fleece the middle class) with a not for profit or government retirement plans - perhaps a parallel to social security that is allowed to invest in the markets.
- Public education through age 21, academic or vocational (since this is the minimum requirement for the modern workforce).
- Strong federal gun control laws.

Many on the right will scream bloody murder as this is enacted, but give it 5-10 years and Americans will love being able to access healthcare without fear of financial assault. They'll love being able to contemplate not living in poverty in their older years. Just like Americans love Social Security and Medicare, both of which the right screamed would turn America into the USSR. The right wing is so scared of government programs that serve ordinary citizens because once they're enacted they're very popular and very hard to undo.

Until Americans have a similar level of life security to Europeans, Canadians, Australians etc etc it will continue to be easy for the right to foment culture wars.

I don't disagree with any of the actions you have outlined. They are all reasonable objectives. My only points are that 1) the timing for a bold move to the left is not now, and 2) that legislation that will endure (including that which requires constitutional change) has to be bi-partisen.

!n order to implement lasting change, the Dems need to control the Presidency and both houses of congress. But that alone (as we saw with the ACA) is not enough to pass laws that survive the test of time. For that, the Dems need some level of moderate GOP crossover so that legislation can be branded as bi-partisen. I can not say for sure that there will be enough moderate Republicans left after November to actually work with, but that is my hope.

I'll give just one example, and I apologize for repeating since I've made this point before. I really want to see wholesale change in the US healthcare system, and I believe that a Medicare-for-all plan will eventually work. But right now, given the level of polarization, there is no way that even moderate Republicans would support it because it will be seen as removing freedom of choice. You and I both know this is false, but that is how most Americans would feel if they were told that the government is their only option for healthcare. Far better in my view is adding a public option to the ACA. Framed as "just another choice", it will rapidly become a no-brainer choice for most Americans. Over time, we accomplish the same thing, but hopefully without a large-scale Tea Party-style revolt.