'Best' Universities to charge more.. Discuss.

[Heath]

I will start with David Beckham studies at Staffordshire university to highlight a point. There are countless courses along those lines.

There never was a degree in 'David Beckham studies'. It was a single module about the sociology of football that was included as an option in several much broader degree courses. It looked at the evolution of football, the impact on communities, and included the rise of celebrity superstars like Beckham, but it wasn't about him. It's a perfectly valid area to study.

Then we have a small sample of media studies, philosophy, theatre studies, golf management, history..... etc...plenty more I could mention

A bachelors degree soft subjects from a low rent uni and you can jump a couple of places in the line for a call centre job

Well, philosophy is the base for pretty much everything - ethics, human rights, law, government... Philosophy is an excellent area of study.

And as for people studying small specialised vocational courses such as golf management, graduate employment rates are generally pretty good.

 

[London Lad]

I seems to me that a large percentage of youngsters going to uni nowadays are leaving and then not doing anything that they couldn't have done without a degree.

I personally believe that all and any education is a good thing but it is generally a means to an end and what's the point in nearly everyone going to uni if there aren't any graduate only jobs paying more money out there, especially if they are running up a huge bill / loan too. 3 years of not earning plus a £30k+ loan puts then at least £80k behind before they start. revert to only the brightest going to uni and maybe the state could afford to fund it.

 

[russel]

£30,000 loan?
If only!

3 years at £9000/year tuition loan and £5000/year maintenance loan is £42000 for a 3 year course.

Yep and walk out of it slap bang into a jobs market where people in developing countries have a much lower debt burden and can afford to work for much lower wages, it really makes UK graduates uncompetitive in a world market. One advantage most of us had when we graduated was that we were only competing, to a large extent, with other UK grads.

 

[gintonic]

There never was a degree in 'David Beckham studies'. It was a single module about the sociology of football that was included as an option in several much broader degree courses. It looked at the evolution of football, the impact on communities, and included the rise of celebrity superstars like Beckham, but it wasn't about him. It's a perfectly valid area to study.


Well, philosophy is the base for pretty much everything - ethics, human rights, law, government... Philosophy is an excellent area of study.

And as for people studying small specialised vocational courses such as golf management, graduate employment rates are generally pretty good.

Thank you, couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Rodrat]

The biggest growth is in law degrees. Students believe that this is the path to kudos and riches. In reality only a very small percentage will earn any more than a teacher and for most obtaining a training contract is unlikely. The magic circle firms are really only interested in Oxbridge or Russell Group graduates and even the smaller firms will bin most applications from those that attend 'junk' universities.

 

[PsB]

This will not end well. The logical outcome of this approach is the US system, where tuition etc. runs in the 50-70 K$ range these days almost regardless of quality. State universities are cheaper but still expensive. Apart from loading students up with masses of debt and penalising poor students (at least the ones that are not academic or fast enough to get into one of the top schools on a full scholarship), it also discourages studying subjects that "don't pay". The country ends up poorer as a result.

Young people are constantly told that in a globalised world where low tech and mid tech jobs have moved somewhere else, education is the only key to success. If we put quality education out of reach of most youngsters, we have failed. A quality education doesn't necessarily have to take place in a University - there are excellent apprenticeship schemes that alternate different forms of learning - but it has to be something that will give young people the skills to make their way in life as fulfilled citizens.

The deal in Europe since WW2 has (by and large) been that we pay high taxes and contributions (IT, VAT, etc.) but get a lot in return: good health/social coverage, free education and some sort of retirement. That deal is now being eroded in almost every aspect.

 

[gintonic]

The biggest growth is in law degrees. Students believe that this is the path to kudos and riches. In reality only a very small percentage will earn any more than a teacher and for most obtaining a training contract is unlikely. The magic circle firms are really only interested in Oxbridge or Russell Group graduates and even the smaller firms will bin most applications from those that attend 'junk' universities.

where is that data from? Do you mean the number of students studying law? Or yhe number of degree programmes. According to UUK, if you compare the number of students studying law in 2004/5 against 2013/14 the number has grown by 5.5% compared to biological sciences which in the same period has grown by 42.6%

http://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/highereducation/Documents/2015/PatternsAndTrends2015.pdf

 

[gassor]

The Scottish decision to keep university education 'free' has resulted in institutions being kept short of money and thus being unable to modernise equipment or maintain buildings properly.

Havent heard any evidence of this, although there have been some suggestions that there could be long term difficulties. Below is the situation at present.

Five Scottish universities have climbed up a respected table of the world's top higher education institutions.

Scotland now has a total of five universities in the top 200 of the Times Higher Education world rankings and three in the top 100.

The University of Edinburgh is the top-ranked Scottish institution in 24th place.
Glasgow has moved to its highest ranking of 76th place and St Andrews is ranked 86th.

 

[Rodrat]

Sorry comparing it to those studying law in the early 80's.

 

[Mullardman]

It would probably help if we re-introduced a requirement/levy system so that buisness had to pay for *paid* apprenticeships or training. i.e. akin to the old system where their either did their own share of such training for themselves, or contributed towards others doing it. This would help rebuild a skills and training layer and mean more choice for students rather than all being pushed towards the academic side.

We used to have this. It was a system of Industry Training Boards, possibly the best known being the Construction Industry Training Board. (CITB) which AFAIK still exists, but as a shadow of its former self.
And who got rid of ITBs?

Yep. Thatcher.

But even Thatcher cannot be blamed for all of the problem. No govt. of any colour has had the balls to oblige employing organisations to take responsibility for the cost of training.

Mull

 

[Mullardman]

Thank you, couldn't have said it better myself.

+1

Mull

 

[Mullardman]

Are you ready for a list of 25900? Can this site handle it?

Im not going to fully bite here. You KNOW what Im getting at. You tell me the good courses.

I will start with David Beckham studies at Staffordshire university to highlight a point. There are countless courses along those lines.

Then we have a small sample of media studies, philosophy, theatre studies, golf management, history..... etc...plenty more I could mention

A bachelors degree soft subjects from a low rent uni and you can jump a couple of places in the line for a call centre job

I would even argue that with a degree in electronic engineering youve got to know exactly where you are heading and what you can do to stand out from the crowd.... a clue here is the big companies arent generally hiring even if they havent cleared off abroad...the big tech companies want very specific skills and experience....have you got the knowledge to take on the established players in repair or design?

Heck I would even argue that if you do Maths or Physics,then you had better be sure where it might lead and what you can actually offer. These core subjects do not guarantee an easy path. They are not the guarantees of employment that they once were

Im saying it can be a complete lottery. At £40,000 choose well

Sorry, but, as has been pointed out extremely well already, this is mostly sensationalist drivel.

What's your take on Classics, PPE etc? IIRC, half of the Diplomatic Corps studied these 'soft' subjects. That said, they also mostly managed miraculously to get into Oxbridge and come from the right background, which is a far more powerful determinant of success.

Mull

 

[fay spook]

I work in audio and several of our recruits did the Tonmeister course in Surrey. We didn't choose them because of that but the course happens to produce good people. I think the combination of music and technology helps make a well rounded student.

Having seen my nephew receive very few hours a week lecture or face to face time while studying Eng Lang, when are we going to see 2 extended year degrees. That is if we aren't already. By extended I mean knocking time off each holiday. If you could pay 1/3 less would that temp us all to study David Beckham? BTW a very nice man according to her indoors who has met him via work a few times and so is Posh. Very wealthy and a fine athlete so perhaps he is worth studying..........

 

[Mullardman]

English is by nature a reading intensive subject. It is therefore not sensible to compare it with audio.

 

[Minstrel SE]

Sorry, but, as has been pointed out extremely well already, this is mostly sensationalist drivel.

What's your take on Classics, PPE etc? IIRC, half of the Diplomatic Corps studied these 'soft' subjects. That said, they also mostly managed miraculously to get into Oxbridge and come from the right background, which is a far more powerful determinant of success.

Mull

Sure it would be lovely to think that a nice course in History or English Literature would be a pathway to many opportunities. Im not saying that there isnt information to be learned or that its not an enjoyable course

Im being more realistic in a modern economy. Im also talking about the tuition fees for the courses for poorer people. Im asking where these courses actually lead.

The diplomatic corps come from the right background. Its who you know thats important. So make sure you have a history degree and the right connections, preferably a very rich father

 

[Minstrel SE]

There never was a degree in 'David Beckham studies'. It was a single module about the sociology of football that was included as an option in several much broader degree courses. It looked at the evolution of football, the impact on communities, and included the rise of celebrity superstars like Beckham, but it wasn't about him. It's a perfectly valid area to study.


Well, philosophy is the base for pretty much everything - ethics, human rights, law, government... Philosophy is an excellent area of study.

And as for people studying small specialised vocational courses such as golf management, graduate employment rates are generally pretty good.

Its all very lovely. some of the courses sound like fun.

Im asking where they actually lead now. I am aware of the depth of Philosophy. I mentioned it because I wonder where it actually leads in a competitive world where everyone has to earn a crust. I rub my chin in the pub and come up with philosophical statements

My sister did American Studies She is now an accountant. However she is only an accountant because she networked on volunteering schemes and a friend got her into an office linked to a factory. From there she studied to CIMA while doing the office grunt work. It must have been tough for her at that stage.

American Studies though I make my point....Touche!

 

[fay spook]

English is by nature a reading intensive subject. It is therefore not sensible to compare it with audio.

I wasn't actually comparing. I was trying to comment on how useful some degrees are in an area I know, have studied myself to Masters level and recruit in. Separately I was pondering if someone would take the "slack" time out of a degree. According to the neph BA 2.1 Kent (Cantab) there was a lot of time spent doing f@ck all and his degree could have been done in 2 extended years. I'm not putting down different subjects, hence my defence of David Beckham.

 

[gintonic]

I work in audio and several of our recruits did the Tonmeister course in Surrey. We didn't choose them because of that but the course happens to produce good people. I think the combination of music and technology helps make a well rounded student.

Having seen my nephew receive very few hours a week lecture or face to face time while studying Eng Lang, when are we going to see 2 extended year degrees. That is if we aren't already. By extended I mean knocking time off each holiday. If you could pay 1/3 less would that temp us all to study David Beckham? BTW a very nice man according to her indoors who has met him via work a few times and so is Posh. Very wealthy and a fine athlete so perhaps he is worth studying..........

The extended or accelerated degree is a great idea. We used to run one. All geared up to teach through the summer, in order to deliver an honours degree in 2 years. Guess what, the students voted with their feet and didn't sign up in sufficient numbers to keep it viable.

 

[gintonic]

Oops.......double post

 

[Joe Hutch]

English is by nature a reading intensive subject. It is therefore not sensible to compare it with audio.

To be brutally frank, English really is a doddle. Indeed, most arts degrees could be done in two years, as almost everyone spends year two just arsing about.