linnfomaniac83
I bet you can’t wheelie a unicycle!
You’d be more than welcome!
Best S/H Integrated Amp for under £200
- Thread starter MJSM
- Start date
TonyScarlett
pfm Member
My Obelisk 3 was serviced this time last year by Phil Balaam at Nytech in Cardiff. Phil worked for Richard Hays the designer of the Obelisk (& consultant for Heed up until he passed away) at the original Nytech company.
TS
Right, well looks like it will be a Cyrus 3i then, not here yet obviously but I will keep everyone posted when it arrives. I was leaning more towards a mint 1 MkII or III but they were going for more than I wanted to pay so I went for the 3i in the end. Hopefully I have not chosen the runt of the litter.
linnfomaniac83
I bet you can’t wheelie a unicycle!
I don’t think they’re the runt by any means, the 3/3i were an the successors to the 2, themselves replaced by the 7, 8 and so forth. They were the upper level integrated amp of the time (the Straightline being the entry level model).
Thanks, there is not a lot of review information about the 3i which usually suggests its not that interesting either way, mind you there is not much on the 3 either for that matter. I'm looking forward to it arriving, hopefully this week and with any luck it will show it's mettle against the Marantz.
I like the idea of the additional power supply option too, quite Naim-like but cheaper, although the internal Toroidal transformer in the 3i is increased (from the 3) to a 180VA ! which is bigger than any Nait transformer I think so how much gain there is by using one I can't imagine straight off, I guess its the way they separate what supplies what in the amp.
eisenach
pfm Member
I used a Cyrus One in my MFL clasroom ! Partnered with the tape player for the listening exercises and the sat box for French / German TV. I used MS 05 speakers mounted on the front wall.I used PSX-r's on both the 8vs2 and CD player. With Cyrus they do not increase power but feed cleaner power to the pre amp circuits. - Oddly I found that it took an already very clean and (slightly) lean sound a touch in the wrong direction and preferred the amplifier without separate power supply. I did however like the power supply with the CD player.
I personally would err in the direction of Pre/Power if you want an upgrade from the integrated.
Problem with Cyrus, as with others is that you can soon end up spending more and end up with less than going for a better integrated solution ...
That's good information, I think I will listen to the 3i on it's own for a while and if I think there is anything missing may consider a PSX-R.
If I understand the way it works, when you connect a PSX-R to a 3i it separates the external/internal power supplies to Pre-Amp/Power amp respectively, which is the wrong way round intuitively as the PSX-R (300VA) is then supplying a pre-amp with quite low current needs and the internal supply (180VA) is supplying the much higher current Power Amp. (unless I got that wrong obviously).
The 8vs2 has a 330VA torroid, not sure about the 3.
Amber Audio
This is the Day
Yes, a decent step up from the C2 which had a 107VA transformer. Am I right about how the power is used ? e.g. PSX-R supplies the Pre-amp stages and the internal 180VA supplies the power amp stages ?
Amber Audio
This is the Day
Yep adding a PSX to an Integrated it powers the Pre section and the internal one supplies just the power amplifier, I believe the idea is to give the Pre really clean and regulated power which is of more benefit than doing it the other way round according to Cyrus.
I guess that means that the internal supply is not the best it could be then, I wonder if it could be improved with some additional regulation then rather than adding a whole new box. Or is it that the internal power supplies are just too close to the pre-amp section (but I guess not as that wouldn't change just by disconnecting it from the pre-amp). According to the Cyrus blurb ....
A sophisticated 180VA toroidal power transformer forms the essential part of the Cyrus IIIi advanced linear Power supply system. The “zero-mechanical-noise” core design of this transformer ensures high performance within an unusually wide AC mains voltage. The patented slit-foil reservoir capacitors dispel circulating eddy currents in the foil reducing the ESR as well as substantially increasing the effective power supply bandwidth as seen by the amplifiers.
Well it arrived today and is already hooked up and in service, not had too much chance to listen to it yet as I don't like to disturb the neighbours during TV viewing time but what little time I did listen to it impressed me quite a lot, it's a belter for want of a better expression.
Much better across my entire frequency range (so not more than 10K if I'm lucky) than the Marantz it is replacing, lots more definition all round. So, I think the exercise was well worth the effort, I got the amp for well under my £200 budget and it has proven to me that there are good things to be had out there for small money. I think my Naim gear is going to have to blow it out of the water to get it out of the house now.
I would like to add my thanks to all of you who chipped in with opinions and experiences, I might not have considered Cyrus had it not been for a couple of Cyrus enthusiasts on here. More to follow when I've had more chance to listen to it.
Much better across my entire frequency range (so not more than 10K if I'm lucky) than the Marantz it is replacing, lots more definition all round. So, I think the exercise was well worth the effort, I got the amp for well under my £200 budget and it has proven to me that there are good things to be had out there for small money. I think my Naim gear is going to have to blow it out of the water to get it out of the house now.
I would like to add my thanks to all of you who chipped in with opinions and experiences, I might not have considered Cyrus had it not been for a couple of Cyrus enthusiasts on here. More to follow when I've had more chance to listen to it.
AnilS
pfm Member
@MJSM as some respected members here know, it too have to wear hearing aids.
Mine are probably the best NHS you can get, but that's because my condition will be different to yours.
I sold my Cyrus 3i on this forum, along with a Q power, as I was biamping. The reason was It initially sounded amazing but my ears deteriorated.
I bought a Yamaha A-S500 as it suited my needs but I really needed tone controls.
I've also had to bring into play a nice graphic equaliser to balance the sound.
I'm sure you'll be fine but if you feel like you are struggling with the sound, have your hearing aids checked or upgraded.
Happy to chat to you as I've been through all of them.
Mine are probably the best NHS you can get, but that's because my condition will be different to yours.
I sold my Cyrus 3i on this forum, along with a Q power, as I was biamping. The reason was It initially sounded amazing but my ears deteriorated.
I bought a Yamaha A-S500 as it suited my needs but I really needed tone controls.
I've also had to bring into play a nice graphic equaliser to balance the sound.
I'm sure you'll be fine but if you feel like you are struggling with the sound, have your hearing aids checked or upgraded.
Happy to chat to you as I've been through all of them.
@MJSM as some respected members here know, it too have to wear hearing aids.
Mine are probably the best NHS you can get, but that's because my condition will be different to yours.
I sold my Cyrus 3i on this forum, along with a Q power, as I was biamping. The reason was It initially sounded amazing but my ears deteriorated.
I bought a Yamaha A-S500 as it suited my needs but I really needed tone controls.
I've also had to bring into play a nice graphic equaliser to balance the sound.
I'm sure you'll be fine but if you feel like you are struggling with the sound, have your hearing aids checked or upgraded.
Happy to chat to you as I've been through all of them.
Hi, I'm not sure where my HA fit on the basic - advanced chart, they are Oticon Spirit Synergy and my prescription is for high frequency deafness, my chart starts to drop off at 5-6Khz and by 8Khz it was well down to non-existent. The trouble with all hearing aids is the lack of correction above the 8Khz (speech range) considered by the NHS to be good enough for normal hearing range.
Mine also have a 'music program' but I have not used that for a couple of years or so because I found it to be ineffective. A graphic equaliser is probably a good way to go assuming your HAs can respond to it but as far as I understand 8Khz is it. Actually there is a theory that even inaudible frequencies (e.g. above 16Khz max) affect the way we hear the audible frequencies so a GE may be a good way to test that theory.
I have recently been considering going outside of the NHS for HAs because there are some new aids on the market that can boost up to 10Khz but they are around £3500 a pair so you have to be pretty sure they will hit the mark. If the Oticon ones I have here are anything to go by I am not sure I could cope with the extra frequency boost because they already sound like a cheap transistor radio due, I think, to the fact that they have such tiny apertures for the microphone (and a tiny microphone to boot).
I just don't think current HA design is well suited to music in general, it may be something to do with speaker positioning too, as an experiment, with your HAs on, cup your hands behind your ears (like a radar dish effect) and note the increase in upper frequency response. The HA microphones are too directional and not typically facing forward so it seems to me that they are not really geared for picking up hi definition sound from a forward direction.
AnilS
pfm Member
@MJSM
My HA are now the mould ones (impressions made from ears). I too have a music setting (4 settings on these in total. 1. Speech. 2. Speech with noise. 3. Music. 4 Nagging from the Mrs).
Beyond this, I'd have to fork out for private HA. Worth an ask for moulded ones as they do help with music (IMHO). I'm now finding, that without them, I'm very hard of hearing.
Back on thread. This was my Cyrus setup:
Now with more tone controls:
As you can see in the last picture, the equaliser is set for my ears and does make a significant difference. I have several equalisers (soon to be sold) that I tried, but found this one ideal, with separate L and R adjustment. I have a basic Goodmans that is similar and you are welcome to try it.
Food for thought
My HA are now the mould ones (impressions made from ears). I too have a music setting (4 settings on these in total. 1. Speech. 2. Speech with noise. 3. Music. 4 Nagging from the Mrs).
Beyond this, I'd have to fork out for private HA. Worth an ask for moulded ones as they do help with music (IMHO). I'm now finding, that without them, I'm very hard of hearing.
Back on thread. This was my Cyrus setup:
Now with more tone controls:
As you can see in the last picture, the equaliser is set for my ears and does make a significant difference. I have several equalisers (soon to be sold) that I tried, but found this one ideal, with separate L and R adjustment. I have a basic Goodmans that is similar and you are welcome to try it.
Food for thought
@MJSM
My HA are now the mould ones (impressions made from ears). I too have a music setting (4 settings on these in total. 1. Speech. 2. Speech with noise. 3. Music. 4 Nagging from the Mrs).
Beyond this, I'd have to fork out for private HA. Worth an ask for moulded ones as they do help with music (IMHO). I'm now finding, that without them, I'm very hard of hearing.
Back on thread. This was my Cyrus setup:
Now with more tone controls:
As you can see in the last picture, the equaliser is set for my ears and does make a significant difference. I have several equalisers (soon to be sold) that I tried, but found this one ideal, with separate L and R adjustment. I have a basic Goodmans that is similar and you are welcome to try it.
Food for thought
Hi Anils,
My apologies for not replying sooner, I guess I just went off and did more listening than typing - always a good sign
Nice system you have there, a good spread of tried and trusted Japanese with a bit of English thrown in for good measure ....
I am now leaning towards a graphic equaliser with the intention of boosting the frequencies I know I am not hearing naturally (basically everything from around 5Khz upwards) and it seems to me that I could achieve that with something like a 10 or 12 channel equaliser similar to what you have there. The ability to adjust both sides independently is also of interest as my hearing deficiency is not equal L to R. The intention would be to listen to the music without the HAs the idea being that all of the frequency boosting is done in the GE.
I'm curious about the Tape 1 and 2 controls on the front and TBH I have never considered where the equaliser sits in the signal path, my guess is that it is between pre-amp and amp, so it is a little more challenging with the Cyrus set-up I guess, possibly impossible without adding a separate power amp into the mix, my next research topic I suspect.
I'd be interested on your take regarding the listening to music through your system without the HAs if you could try it out for me. I don't know what form your hearing loss takes so this may be possible or not dependent on that.
Cheers
Mike