Average UK worker would be £200 a week better off if real wages had grown at pre-crisis rate
- Thread starter ks.234
- Start date
Where are you going shopping?
Just curious, as I work in London and live near Portsmouth, If I go shopping in my lunch break or on a weekend the outlook is VERY different.
Just to clarify, London has a lot of very comfortable people and a number of significantly less so, Portsmouth is somewhat more in the middle of the bell curve, although we still have a bloke living in the bus shelter at the bottom of my road and it rare I get shopping and someone isn't struggling, coppering up for their weekly shop, or working out what they need to put back in Tescos to be able to pay.
If you are in a nice affluent area of Surrey (I lived in Guildford for may years) then I'm sure things look quite rosy at the moment.
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
I don't understand why a man of your intelligence could get confused - Joseph Rowntree take a wider sample set than just who lives near them and in and around the nice shopping centres.
You'll only see those who are better off. If you are living in poverty then chances are you won't be able to pop down to the shops for something to do and enjoy a £30 lunch with your partner on a Tuesday. You'll either not have the money to do it or you'll be working to be less poor. And, you don't have a nice shiny car either. If it's like most of the folks around here, they will be rusty, dinged 15 year old Fords, Vauxhalls and Nissans
lordsummit
Moderator
That’s because you live in relatively affluent Swindon. Try visiting Rochdale or Oldham, I’ll take you to a few places. You can meet some of the kids I work with who would tell you stories that would make you weep. But no, it’s fine, we’re all doing fine and can afford a Porch if we want one. The difference between the North and South in terms of affluence is why Brexit happened and why the shit will increasingly hit the fan until the wealth gap is closed. Tories going to Tory I suppose
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
I thought you wanted to discus your love for your fellow human beings, and sought common purpose with them for that cause in strength and unity.
But we seem to be back to celebrating your own wealth and blaming growing inequality on fecklessness.
It’s almost as if you weren’t serious when you spoke of love, common purpose and strength through unity?
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Bananahead
pfm Member
My parents live in Guildford so I visit a couple of times each year. For the first ten years or so after I left it stayed fairly nice. Now it has changed. People look scruffy. Restuarants that used to be a bit up market have been replaced with generic chains. There are a lot of empty shops. It's starting to remind me of Doncaster. Yes there are lots of shiny cars but I don't like driving on those roads. I spoke to my mum yesterday - not my dad
- and she told me that my dad's hearing aids have failed and that he has been told that it will be 4 months before he will get an appointment for new ones.As I have stated a few times, I actually lived in Rochdale for 4 long and dreary years and yes it was an awful place full of people who seemed to have no sense of of direction and often used the expression that the country is going to the dogs.
I then moved south to Leamington Spa in 1976 and it was a breath of fresh air. People were positive, ambitious and got things done.
Later I moved to Swindon where things were even more dynamic and when Honda closed down, the people who left either retired early, set up their own business or just got another job. Today no one even remembers Honda, it is now forgotten. The factory is in the process of being demolished and fulfilment warehouses are expected to be built in less than 18 months. That will create 7000 new well paid jobs. Swindon was chosen because of its track record. It has built aircraft, trains and cars and now has ambition to become the largest distribution centre in the UK. Ambition breeds success and that is the lesson that needs to be learned.
That doesn't paint a picture of 'Things going ok' really does it! I lived in Guildford about 25 years ago for a few years, then again later, moved away about 10 years ago, it looked pretty reasonable when I left, but I guess cracks were beginning to show in the town centre.My parents live in Guildford so I visit a couple of times each year. For the first ten years or so after I left it stayed fairly nice. Now it has changed. People look scruffy. Restuarants that used to be a bit up market have been replaced with generic chains. There are a lot of empty shops. It's starting to remind me of Doncaster. Yes there are lots of shiny cars but I don't like driving on those roads. I spoke to my mum yesterday - not my dad
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Depending on how you define “most” and “OK” you might have a point. But the indisputable fact is that for half a century inequality has grown, the NHS has become more and more defunded and regulations to protect pay and conditions have been more and more deregulated.
growing inequality, apart from the social and moral injustice, is also economically destabilising.
We are a very rich country but we behave as if there is no money. Such behaviour is bad for the economy, bad for social unity, bad for the NHS, bad for any sort of growth and bad for anything progressive.
Even if most people are ok, we are choosing a direction of travel that can only shrink that okness, and not to expand it
As you have graciously conceded that I might of a point, I think it would be wise to leave it there.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
This is classic victim-blaming stuff. Your Rochdale people lived in a place with no money, no investment and no hope. No wonder they were dreary, and decades of working and striving, and getting knocked back had taught them that they couldn't improve their lot in any meaningful sense. This is what happens when the capital draws everything to itself. If you continually smack a puppy, the dog it grows into will be cowed and joyless.
Leamington Spa, on the other hand: relatively affluent, broadly middle-class. Spa towns generally have a heritage of money, hell even northern ones like Buxton and Harrogate stand out from their neighbours in that respect.
Mick, yours is a classic case of 'I don't see it with my own eyes, so it can't be all that bad'. For all your talk of love for your fellow man, you display very little empathy.
My parents live in Guildford so I visit a couple of times each year. For the first ten years or so after I left it stayed fairly nice. Now it has changed. People look scruffy. Restuarants that used to be a bit up market have been replaced with generic chains. There are a lot of empty shops. It's starting to remind me of Doncaster. Yes there are lots of shiny cars but I don't like driving on those roads. I spoke to my mum yesterday - not my dad
When the care home lost my Mum's hearing aids i got a really cheap amp / battery / mic box with a headphone that worked just as well and cost about £5k less.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
You might have a point depending on definitions, what I have tried to do is to provide some definitions.
Really not sure why you want to leave it there? You said you wanted to discuss love, common good and strength through unity, do you not want to discuss unity any more?
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Let's say 'OK' means regular meals and not sleeping in a doorway. Let's say 'most' means 'more than half'.
Or we could say 'OK' means having a decent standard of living, with a small disposable income, some security around housing, employment, and pension. And 'most' means 'around 90% of people'.
Big difference.
Which did you have in mind, Mick?
Or we could say 'OK' means having a decent standard of living, with a small disposable income, some security around housing, employment, and pension. And 'most' means 'around 90% of people'.
Big difference.
Which did you have in mind, Mick?
lordsummit
Moderator
You know I can look out of my front window, and it’s lovely, trees, all the cars are ok, not too new, but decent ones. My Dacia lets it down a little. It’s a good thing I can’t see the 100m long foodbank queue less than a mile away…
I looked it up, do you know that Swindon has two foodbanks @Mick P ? Obviously everyone isn’t ok in your neck of the woods. It’s their fault though isn’t it. Nothing to do with the Tories Brexit shutting down Honda, the railway yards shutting etc…
By the way comparing Rochdale to Leamington Spa is risible. You really haven’t got a clue have you. This is why the Tories get in, people like you see their little bubble, see themselves and their friends are alright, and have not got the conscience to think about the ‘little’ people. Out of sight, out of mind…
I looked it up, do you know that Swindon has two foodbanks @Mick P ? Obviously everyone isn’t ok in your neck of the woods. It’s their fault though isn’t it. Nothing to do with the Tories Brexit shutting down Honda, the railway yards shutting etc…
By the way comparing Rochdale to Leamington Spa is risible. You really haven’t got a clue have you. This is why the Tories get in, people like you see their little bubble, see themselves and their friends are alright, and have not got the conscience to think about the ‘little’ people. Out of sight, out of mind…
Tony L
Administrator
It is worse than that. To my eyes it is always laced with the sociopathic Tory cruelty that has been rising to the top in the party over recent years leading to the NF-grade populism and corruption of Johnson, Sunak, Truss etc. Enjoyment of the suffering of others as some sort of twisted self-validation. Tories, especially career ones, really are absolute scum. Freeloading parasitic scum.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Because you can’t see it doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.
20% of people living in poverty in one of the richest countries in the world is not “OK”. It is the product of a broken, corrupted and demonstrably failed ideology.
bor
queue jumper
Sorry your Lordship, but no.
The Tories get in because the population continue to vote for them.
There's 1 million Micks.
There's 59 million of us.
We could flip this overnight, yet those who have got the least, relentlessly vote in those who have the most.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
This is sadly true.
We keep voting for the same old lies, myths and bollocks despite it failing. We still believe politicians who save they love democracy and the NHS, but make policy decisions on our behalf that are slowly crippling both.
We are doing it again now. Labour is talking about saving the NHS, but is promising to privatise it. How that still garners votes after 50 years of decline is the question of our time.