Audiophile Network Switches for Streaming ... really ?
- Thread starter beammeup
- Start date
adamdea
You are not a sound quality evaluation device
Neutrinos can pass through ethernet transformers and indeed most things. I therefore hypothesise that when I and my deaf old mates, whose collective hobby is buying expensive boxes to add to our hifi, put an expensive ethernet switch which serves no obvious technical purpose into our system and enjoy listening to music slightly more than we did yesterday, it must be because the expensive device filters out neutrinos.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
I reckon my tinnitus is me hearing neutrinos hitting my auditory nerve.
sq225917
Bit of this, bit of that
You're not the first person to suggest that neutrinos might be to blame for all the ills of network transmitted audio Adam. It all seems very plausible, after all the little f-ckers are everywhere and nothing stops them.
Seems like @SPT agrees with you, I think you're onto something.
Quantum neutrons only though, obs, not plain old neutrons.
Seems like @SPT agrees with you, I think you're onto something.
Quantum neutrons only though, obs, not plain old neutrons.
chiily
PFM Special Builder
That is kinda funny..
Whaleblue
Southbound
I got bored on page 5, and have jumped to the end to see where we’ve got to. However, I’m happy to surmise that the answer to your question will be a resounding “No”.
Fourlegs
Trade: WAVE High Fidelity digital cables
I will say it is a depends type of question and answer. It depends on the rest of your system, how much you want to spend, if anything, and indeed whether you can hear any difference between the different offerings.
Also there are different ways to skin the cat. Switches are not the only option. Some people swear by passive ethernet filters such as the Sound Acoustics Muon, others get good results from fibre isolation such as the ADOT system.
For me a I used to have an EtherRegen switch but sold it once I heard the Innuos PhoenixNET switch in comparison. Unfortunately that is not a cheap option but for me the improvement was worth the money bearing in mind the investment in the rest of the system. I will not take the PhoenixNET out of my system.
But if one wishes to dip a toe in the water I would recommend trying a Zyxel switch for less than £20. This is the same circuit board as is used in the Chord Company English Electric 8 and when paired with a good power supply it can give a useful insight into the sort of upgrade in sound quality that can be obtained. This board is so good that it is used by a number of manufacturers who tweak and fine tune it to make it even better. Having heard a couple of these upgraded versions it does seem to respond very well to these tweaks, albeit at a fair price hike as well.
Order a Zyxel today and get it tomorrow from Amazon.
Zyxel 8-Port Desktop Gigabit Ethernet Switch - Metal housing | Plug & Play | Fanless | UK Plug [GS108B] https://amzn.eu/d/1AFdCYl
Fourlegs
Trade: WAVE High Fidelity digital cables
These guys are setting out to measure noise in switches from port to port and also the impact of power supplies and then their aim is to see if there is any correlation between the measurements and the sound of each switch (different people doing the listening and measuring so the listeners are not aware of the measurements). This is just an introduction to what they are setting out to do but already they are finding that there is noise transfer from port to port with the switches and that this is different with different switches. The interesting thing will be whether this appears to impact on sound quality.
sq225917
Bit of this, bit of that
Well its a start, measuring port to port and port to power leakage with injected synthesised noise.
But first they've got to find that noise level out in the wild, and half a volt of wide band rfi ain't happening anywhere. He's a good 10-100x out of whack there.
If they go on to use that injected noise level in the listening tests I'd suggest it makes a nonesense of the whole thing. First they have to prove it's a suitable environmental noise replacement, then do the listening.
Great to see someone actually looking at the numbers. But all that counts is does it change the output of the dac, pre, power amps? That noise exists doesn't matter, the effect is all.
But first they've got to find that noise level out in the wild, and half a volt of wide band rfi ain't happening anywhere. He's a good 10-100x out of whack there.
If they go on to use that injected noise level in the listening tests I'd suggest it makes a nonesense of the whole thing. First they have to prove it's a suitable environmental noise replacement, then do the listening.
Great to see someone actually looking at the numbers. But all that counts is does it change the output of the dac, pre, power amps? That noise exists doesn't matter, the effect is all.
Fourlegs
Trade: WAVE High Fidelity digital cables
No, I don’t think they intend to use injected noise in the listening tests but rather just initially see if there is any correlation between the sound of a switch in an audio system in normal use and the injected noise transfer/leakage measurements.
As you say, it is a start.
As you say, it is a start.
gustav_errata
pfm Member
I disagree. They should first prove the possibility of noise reaching DAC outputs at an obvious level and then find the realistic limits. It would remove any room for doubt.
chiily
PFM Special Builder
Regardless of the device, switch, PSU, amp, etc anything injecting noise that reaches the DAC output and is audible is bad, the key point is whether it is audible and at the moment the measurable noise and IMPs look down in the noise.
Injecting non-real world levels of noise into a device, measuring the impact indicates that there is a link, but once the injected noise are at real world levels then the link is still there just inaudible, being so low.
gustav_errata
pfm Member
Regardless of the device, switch, PSU, amp, etc anything injecting noise that reaches the DAC output and is audible is bad, the key point is whether it is audible and at the moment the measurable noise and IMPs look down in the noise.
Injecting non-real world levels of noise into a device, measuring the impact indicates that there is a link, but once the injected noise are at real world levels then the link is still there just inaudible, being so low.
I understand, but one of the biggest hypotheses (and doubts!) expressed in this thread is that noise from the network reaches the DAC (and that a switch can attenuate this). So step 1 is a convincing demonstration that the noise does/does not reach the DAC. Then establish that the switch attenuates this. Then check for linearity if the effect (ie does noise only get through if it's if a sufficient amplitude to "swamp" things or do low levels also great through)? Only then start looking into audibility. Skip all those first steps and we'd still have circular arguments about whether noise is actually reaching the DAC. There's a reason scientific papers have multiple tests/results presented. One needs to build a solid foundation to support one's argument.
davidsrsb
pfm Member
EMC radiated immunity testing for consumer equipment is at 3V/m up to 1 GHz and at some spot frequencies due to WiFi up to 6 GHz. These levels are achievable with a cellphone or access point nearby
Test equipment to do this costs a fortune and immunity testing has to be done in a shielded room or you will be broadcasting illegally.
chiily
PFM Special Builder
But I think it was established, via measurement, that real world noise was at a level to be inaudible, regardless of where it came from. And not just established for DACs. Any noise if at a level to be audible is audible, the root here is that the measured noise at a switch is at a level to be inaudible. And the measurements say no, not audible, unless the human has evolved a new, super-duper ear
TheFlash
Reiki Audio
That’s not what I said. I said I would be surprised if it was patentable.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
What level is deemed to be inaudible?But I think it was established, via measurement, that real world noise was at a level to be inaudible, regardless of where it came from. And not just established for DACs. Any noise if at a level to be audible is audible, the root here is that the measured noise at a switch is at a level to be inaudible. And the measurements say no, not audible, unless the human has evolved a new, super-duper ear