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At last... (Audiolab) - part IV

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Thanks Rob, Richard, John... a great help.... it was just not intuitive to me at first that an output that says left or right might not matter if its left or right... still I am really happy I got there in the end and I am actually going to crack open a beer tonight to celebrate.... I feel like I passed an exam or something!

The next step will be to ask my dealer if he can get hold of a second 8200P to test. If not, thats going to be some choice to decide what to do....

because personally I liked the sound I achieved with the 8200MB with XLR balanced cables a lot.

On the other hand the form factor of 2x 8200P suits my room better, and if the man himself says it should cost less and outperform the 8200MBs well thats certainly food for thought, or?

I can afford either setup, so it isnt a question of that. Its just that I cannot get over the fact that I didnt like the sound of 1x 8200P versus 2x 8200MB and that the MB are bigger, more powerful, more expensive, balanced inputs and so on!!!!! Anyone care to convince me more either way?
 
krlock3 said:
Thanks Rob, Richard, John... a great help.... it was just not intuitive to me at first that an output that says left or right might not matter if its left or right... still I am really happy I got there in the end and I am actually going to crack open a beer tonight to celebrate.... I feel like I passed an exam or something!

The next step will be to ask my dealer if he can get hold of a second 8200P to test. If not, thats going to be some choice to decide what to do....

because personally I liked the sound I achieved with the 8200MB with XLR balanced cables a lot.

On the other hand the form factor of 2x 8200P suits my room better, and if the man himself says it should cost less and outperform the 8200MBs well thats certainly food for thought, or?

I can afford either setup, so it isnt a question of that. Its just that I cannot get over the fact that I didnt like the sound of 1x 8200P versus 2x 8200MB and that the MB are bigger, more powerful, more expensive, balanced inputs and so on!!!!! Anyone care to convince me more either way?
Click to expand...

I don't want to confuse things even more, but before I changed to Bryston poweramps, i used to use Audiolab, I upgraded from 1 x 8000P to 4 x 8000M's so two completely separate mono blocks per speaker and that was alot better than the 8000P on its own, these were the old pre tag mono blocks though. :)
 
yes the question I suppose is just how much a difference between 2x 8200P wired as now suggested, versus 2x 8200MB mono blocks?
 
krlock3 said:
yes the question I suppose is just how much a difference between 2x 8200P wired as now suggested, versus 2x 8200MB mono blocks?
Click to expand...

You really need to find this out with your own ears. ;)

If you like to play REALLY LOUD in a big listening room (sitting a good distance from the speakers) with speakers that can genuinely handle a lot of power and love music with a lot of bass heavy content you may prefer the MB's since in this circumstance they should distort less than the smaller amp's if they are designed properly.

Most people and their listening habits do not fit into this category.
Even for home theatre most systems do not need massive power since the really hard hitting bass is handled by the active subwoofer. Also you have several amp's driving a multitude of speakers around the room which equals far more power than in a typical 2 channel music scenario.

That said more power is usually welcome and is useful for dynamic peaks.
 
Just to summarize the last 2 pages or so:
For bi-amping using 2 identical stereo power amps

You need:

1. Two identical stereo power amps :)
2. Speakers that can be bi-wired. That means they have separate inputs for low and high frequency (bass and treble). You can also use speakers with more than 2 inputs, but I won't go into that here.

Mentally think of each stereo amplifier channel (left or right) as a separate mono-amplifier. You simply have two in one box with a stereo amp that happen to be labelled 'L' and 'R'. We are going to use one mono-amplifier for each speaker input.

Begin by removing any links between each speaker's 2 inputs. This is to avoid shorting out the 2 amp sections.

Let's label the two stereo amps 'A' and 'B'.
Use amp A for the left speaker.

1. You need to connect the left output from your source to both 'L' and 'R' inputs on amp A. With the 8200P you can do this by connecting source left output to left input and then left 'load' to right input on the 8200P.
2. Now connect one channel of amp A to the high frequency (tweeter) input on the left speaker. Let's use the LEFT speaker output for this.
3. Connect the other channel of amp A to the low frequency (woofer / bass) input on the left speaker.

You've just hooked up everything for the left speaker. Repeat for the right speaker with amp B:

(using 8200P)
1. Connect source right output to left input and then left 'load' to right input on the 8200P. (Note that using left or right input on the amp does not matter - we are connecting the right source output to both left and right channels on the amp)
2. Connect the left speaker output to the high frequency (tweeter) input on the right speaker.
3. Connect the right speaker output to the low frequency (woofer / bass) input on the right speaker.
 
thanks robg and great instructions bluedragon!!!!

So 2x 8200MBs for more power at high volumes and 2x 8200P for more resolution, is that basically it?
 
krlock3 said:
thanks robg and great instructions bluedragon!!!!

So 2x 8200MBs for more power at high volumes and 2x 8200P for more resolution, is that basically it?
Click to expand...

That's how this thread reads to me. But you probably need to listen to them yourself, and try do at least some of that listening at the volume you would normally use at home.

Also I should add that you follow my instructions at your own risk, get some help if you are not sure. If you connect the outputs of any amps together you could damage them, and there are ways to damage speakers and crossovers with bad connections as well.
 
krlock3 said:
thanks robg and great instructions bluedragon!!!!

So 2x 8200MBs for more power at high volumes and 2x 8200P for more resolution, is that basically it?
Click to expand...

You may not hear it this way so you need to find out for yourself.
I just found a glowing report on the MB's with the CDQ on these PF pages!




Anyway, Loving the CDQ :D
 
The CDQ proved itself in Birmingham today. I popped into Audio Affair for a few hours to try out some Beyerdynamic Tesla T1's. After all the mostly rubbish written about these 'phones on HeadFi, I had reservations about whether the CDQ would be up to driving them.

I need not have worried :D

The CDQ drove the T1's superbly.

According to some posters on HeadFi, the T1 needs a proper powerful headphone amp to get the best out of it. Clearly then the CDQ is a proper powerful headphone amp. According to other posters on HeadFi, the near-zero output of the CDQ should lead to the high impedance T1 being overdamped and without bass. Nope. Total nonsense. These have the best judged bass response I've ever heard from a headphone - not too heavy on the heavy stuff and not too light on the lighter stuff - it was like Mumma Bear's porridge, just right.

There was also a Beyerdynamic A1 headphone amp (£850) on hand for comparison. I could not hear any difference whatsoever between the sound from the A1 and the sound direct from the CDQ.

So there you have it. In case you were wondering, the CDQ is a great headphone amp (and the T1 is a great headphone).
 
technobear,

Thanks for the feedback - I'm not headphone user, but the CDQ's Headphone Amp. is a competently designed Class A stage...

John
 
I was on this path sourcing 'upgrade' from 8000A ;) And so in Dec 2010/Jan 2011, while only 8200MB was in the making, I auditioned 8000P and 8200MB. What I heard was 8200MB gave better resolution, dynamic and bass.

IMHO, it is not loudness I am getting with 8200MB, but simply more 'juice' for the speakers. And I like what I hear, esp. those 'missing' resolutions/details.

ATM, my stereo setup is Oppo95 Stereo/CA 340C to 8200Q to 2x 8200MB to Mission 774.

As per manual, I have tried RCA (8200Q) to XLR (8200MB), but it is not distinctively better. And so I revert to unbalanced RCA-RCA using Chord Cobra+.

Incidentally, for HT, AVR F L/R is pre-out to 8200Q.
 
Hi cn9601,

Very nice of you to comment, thanks a lot! Thats all good information. According to John Westlake though, 2x 8200P used together outperforms 2x 8200MB to his ears.

I would use balanced cables, I guess because I am told they are worth using. According to an earlier post, Mr Westlake will release some new power amps with balanced connections at the time of the CES which I think is in January. I cannot wait until then though, nor can I wait for the updated OLED on the CDQ.

If you are listening though MrW, I would LOVE to see the big OLED from the MDAC on the next gen CDQ! I also think a lot of other people would love that too!

I would also feed my HT to the 8200CDQ in the same way you do, and use HT bypass which is an integrated feature of the CDQ.

I am happy to hear that you enjoy your 8200MBs though!
 
what happens if you feed a DD/DTS 5.1/7.1 digital signal into the CDQ/DQ. I presume it passes throught to the digital outs BUT what about the audio out put is it then muted?

One of my biggest frustrations/worries is the danger of routing sky HD via a dac and suddenly getting nasty noises (non techincal term) from my speakers when the adverts come on or the channel changes because teh signla has changed from stereo to 5.1.

Guess the same issues could apply for those routing a dvd/BR player to the dac
 
Mr Ian said:
and the dac only version too.

I am sure I read some where in this thread that the Mdac was due before the DQ; that delivery could start in August albeit firmware updates may follow and that the latest date was October.

It would be great news if an interim beta solution could be found, sure there would be a few takers on here and it might help iron out any last software issues.
Click to expand...

I've now been told NOVEMBER for the 8200DQ by SuperFi in Oxford - not sure it was any better than a guess. Other dealers are taking deposits, but reluctant to tie up my money until I have some form of delivery date nailed down. Does anyone have better information? I've been away, so apologies if this has been answered in the thread before.
 
ChrisPa said:
From a previous reply from John, I'm pretty sure that only the CD signal is fed to the digital output
Click to expand...

I can understand that with the CD but with the CDQ/DQ I woudl have thought the pre amp function would allow routing of digital signals.

any ideas on whether the 5.1 signal gets converted to to noise and routed to the analogue outs?
 
Mr Ian said:
what happens if you feed a DD/DTS 5.1/7.1 digital signal into the CDQ/DQ. I presume it passes throught to the digital outs BUT what about the audio out put is it then muted?

One of my biggest frustrations/worries is the danger of routing sky HD via a dac and suddenly getting nasty noises (non techincal term) from my speakers when the adverts come on or the channel changes because teh signla has changed from stereo to 5.1.

Guess the same issues could apply for those routing a dvd/BR player to the dac
Click to expand...

I don't know what the CDQ would do with a 5.1 signal but I do know that most DVD/DVR/PVR/Blu-Ray/TV sets can be setup to always output linear PCM stereo. Have a look through the menus.
 
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