Steven Toy
Accuphase newbie
He lives in France but does not have the manners I would associate with the French. Teenagers can be quite petulant, can't they?
At last... (Audiolab) - part IV
- Thread starter arthur
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Still confused, I do apologise.
If I buy 2x 8200p....
You are saying that one of them would be used exclusively for the left speaker and the second 8200P used exclusively for the right? Is that correct?
Forgive me for asking but then isnt this the same manner in which I would use the 8200MB monoblocks, or?
What I am also not getting is why, if used in this way, an 8200P should perform better than a more powerful and more expensive 8200MB?
I have demoed the 8200CDQ with ONE 8200P and compared that against TWO 8200MB with balanced. Even allowing for the volume difference between balanced inputs, the monoblocks sounded clearly superior to my ears.
Are am I confused and you are talking about 1x8200p controls the bass for both left and right speaker and 1x8200p controls the rest for both left and right speaker?
So the question is, what am I missing (I am a novice so I appreciate if anyone could help!).
Am I also the only one here wondering what is the point of using the 8200M or 8200MB... after all the audiolab website says that "Using two monobloc amplifiers, rather than a two-channel stereo power amplifier, can significantly improve the performance of any hi-fi system".
Is it just that the next step above this is using two stereo amplifiers?
Kevin
Kevin,
No one is arguing that two stereo amplifiers is inherently better.
I think JohnW simply does not personally enjoy the sound of the MB's and prefers the sound of the smaller models, hence the use of multiple 8200p's (one channel per driver) instead of the brute force of one MB per channel.
Arguably the amp's have more control over the speaker as they see less passive components between the driver and amp.
Disregarding Audiolab and passive speakers for a moment.
Above passive bi-amping there is true bi-amping which means active, the electronic crossover and equalisation in an active system is unaffected by the load of the speaker as it comes before the amp's.
The amp's are then directly connected to the drive units usually via much shorter cables. With Active each amp does not have to handle the full bandwidth, just the treble, mid or bass or mid/bass from the seperated signal this in turn reduces distortion in the amplfiers and also reduces power requirements.
The amp's have the shortest signal path possible.
* To complicate matters I will explain that there is many factors that make good sound so you cannot guarantee better sound by bi-amping passive or active. You might hear a passive single wire speaker that walks all over a fully bi-amped or tri-amped system, of course that should not be the same system!
No one is arguing that two stereo amplifiers is inherently better.
I think JohnW simply does not personally enjoy the sound of the MB's and prefers the sound of the smaller models, hence the use of multiple 8200p's (one channel per driver) instead of the brute force of one MB per channel.
Arguably the amp's have more control over the speaker as they see less passive components between the driver and amp.
Disregarding Audiolab and passive speakers for a moment.
Above passive bi-amping there is true bi-amping which means active, the electronic crossover and equalisation in an active system is unaffected by the load of the speaker as it comes before the amp's.
The amp's are then directly connected to the drive units usually via much shorter cables. With Active each amp does not have to handle the full bandwidth, just the treble, mid or bass or mid/bass from the seperated signal this in turn reduces distortion in the amplfiers and also reduces power requirements.
The amp's have the shortest signal path possible.
* To complicate matters I will explain that there is many factors that make good sound so you cannot guarantee better sound by bi-amping passive or active. You might hear a passive single wire speaker that walks all over a fully bi-amped or tri-amped system, of course that should not be the same system!
Sorry Rob, please treat me more like an idiot for a moment...
Using 2x 8200p, one channel per driver. Is this using 1x 8200p to power the bass on both L+R speaker and the other 8200P to power the mids etc on both L+R speaker?
This is the basic point I am not getting! Sorry but I do not understand the distinction between channels and drivers!
Using 2x 8200p, one channel per driver. Is this using 1x 8200p to power the bass on both L+R speaker and the other 8200P to power the mids etc on both L+R speaker?
This is the basic point I am not getting! Sorry but I do not understand the distinction between channels and drivers!
The normal way of doing it is how John mentioned earlier, that is "one amplifier per channel".
So you would have one 8200p per speaker, one amp channel for the bass one for the mid/hf.
Bass uses more power than the mid/hf thats one of the reasons you would not use one of the 8200p to drive the bass on both the left and right.
JohnW
pfm member
Hi Kevin,
As Richard (vishnu737) and Rob have already answered:-
1. Being "Stereo Amplifiers" each 8200P has two "Channels"
2. Use one 8200P Per Speaker:-
Connect the 8200P's "Left" Speaker output to the Bass Driver.
Connect the 8200P's "Right" Speaker output to the MID/HF sections of the speaker
Do the same for the other Speaker / 8200P
You will need to connect the Left and Right inputs together on each amplifier - made easier on the 8200P by connecting your input lead from the CDQ to "Left" input on 8200P - then from "Left Load" on 8200P, connect with short RCA lead or RCA jumper to the 8200P's "Right" Input.
Your Dealer should be able to help...
John
As Richard (vishnu737) and Rob have already answered:-
1. Being "Stereo Amplifiers" each 8200P has two "Channels"
2. Use one 8200P Per Speaker:-
Connect the 8200P's "Left" Speaker output to the Bass Driver.
Connect the 8200P's "Right" Speaker output to the MID/HF sections of the speaker
Do the same for the other Speaker / 8200P
You will need to connect the Left and Right inputs together on each amplifier - made easier on the 8200P by connecting your input lead from the CDQ to "Left" input on 8200P - then from "Left Load" on 8200P, connect with short RCA lead or RCA jumper to the 8200P's "Right" Input.
Your Dealer should be able to help...
John
Ok,
No worries.
Think of the stereo amps as two mono amp's in one box.
Basically you can use each stereo amp, 1 per channel. This is using the stereo amp as two mono amps, as a bi-amping monoblock. Left channel has 2 amp's, one per driver. The right channel also has the same arrangement.
amp 1 -(both channels 1 per driver) left speaker.
amp 2 -(both channels 1 per driver) right speaker.
Alternatively you can use two stereo amp's (so long as they have the same gain) and use one stereo amp to drive bass only (both speakers) and the other amp to drive treble only (both speakers). If one amp is more powerful than the other this should be used on the bass drivers as they require more power to drive and control large excursions from the much heavier bass cone.
For instance
25 watt amp (both channels) -stereo tweeters
100 watt amp (both channels) -stereo bass mids.
I will repeat with these passive bi-amping arrangements you need to ensure the amp's have the same gain.
The audiolab's should all have the same gain.
So with 2x 8200P, this would be exactly as in the manual in this link under section 4, 8200P Bi-amplfied loudspeaker connection ...?
http://www.audiolab.co.uk/Manuals/8200Q_M_P Manual.PDF
Yep.
Ok thats great... something I can for sure understand.
What I still do not get, is, if I use one amp per speaker and use the right output for bass and the left output for mid/HF, as Mr Westlake suggests, they am I not mixing up the stereo channels....? i.e. a drum that might normally come from the left speaker might come from the right or vice versa?
What I still do not get, is, if I use one amp per speaker and use the right output for bass and the left output for mid/HF, as Mr Westlake suggests, they am I not mixing up the stereo channels....? i.e. a drum that might normally come from the left speaker might come from the right or vice versa?
I personally would not do it this way, I would do it as previously said and would keep one 8200p per speaker.
thanks for all the advice. The operating manual does only state doing it that way.
So what, in laymans terms, am I now missing that makes me think that using one amp per speaker, and connecting left output to bass, and right output to mid/HF, would mix up the stereo channels?
So what, in laymans terms, am I now missing that makes me think that using one amp per speaker, and connecting left output to bass, and right output to mid/HF, would mix up the stereo channels?
As I said, if it makes it easier for you think of them as a box with two mono amp's. They are labelled up left and right for ease of use.
left and right channel markings on the amp's are only labels.
If one amp does the left channel and the other does the right you can use both stereo channels on one speaker (per 2 channel amp). If one (2 channel) amp is used for the left channel then the preamp connects to the left stereo amp with a split feed, you will get the left channel of stereo info and so on.
each mono channel needs a feed from the preamp, so you split the mono feed from the preamp.
if you are still confused look at the pictures, you should get it eventually
Ok, I promise I am nearly there.....
You are saying that the names left and right on the 8200P amp do not matter.
If with one amplifier I go with a cable from left output to left speaker bass and from the same amplifier i go with another cable from right output to left speaker mid/HF.... then that amplifier will correctly drive the left speaker using one channel of the amplfier for the bass and one channel of the amplifier for the mid HF?
I would then repeat the procedure with a second 8200P and my right speaker, and its all good?
Tell me thats exactly correct and then I think, with your help, I am finally on the same page?
You are saying that the names left and right on the 8200P amp do not matter.
If with one amplifier I go with a cable from left output to left speaker bass and from the same amplifier i go with another cable from right output to left speaker mid/HF.... then that amplifier will correctly drive the left speaker using one channel of the amplfier for the bass and one channel of the amplifier for the mid HF?
I would then repeat the procedure with a second 8200P and my right speaker, and its all good?
Tell me thats exactly correct and then I think, with your help, I am finally on the same page?
Yes that's correct.
Don't forget you will have to connect the load to the input on the same amp or else all the drivers will not work.
Also make sure the drivers are not linked on the back of your speakers on the speaker terminals if they are you will short the amps together.
If you are not sure it might be better as John says to see a dealer or else you may damage something if you connect it up incorrectly.
By this, you just mean make sure I take away the metal bridges between my bass and mid/HF terminals on my speakers, and make sure that there is no further contact between them... ?
If so, I think I am clear on that.
Yes that's exactly what I mean.
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