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Are there any really good Phono Stages that don't cost thousands?

Purite Audio said:
'less forward' usually means a little HF roll off so look at something with a valve in it.
Keith.
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No, a mid-centric sound can often seem the most forward, especially as you will instinctively tend to switch the volume up to compensate for the roll off, resulting in pushy mids.
 
psi310398 said:
("autotunes" to cartridge properties)?
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A bit of an urban myth, that. I discussed such things with Jonathan Carr, years ago. And we concluded that not only would such a feature be nigh on infeasible, Jonathan added that not even the most loony of Japanese companies have ever really tried such a thing.

It is marketing speak for either a stage which is not adjustable, or a stage with zero-impedance current input. Nothing automagic.
 
Elephantears said:
I want greater naturalism, dimensionality, texture, and tonal colour, but it seems I need a second mortgage to get these qualities.
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You want greater neutrality and tonal color? Im not sure youll find such a thing in one package and perhaps knowing which of those qualities you desire as a match for your system should be a primary decision to conclude prior to stumping up the cash for a purchase. That said; an Icon Audio PS3 second hand with a small investment in tube replacement/upgrade will give a dynamic performance which will by far outweigh the price tag to you. You do occasionally see them available on the used market.
 
No I didn't say neutrality, I said naturalism. And tonal colour is not the same as coloration.

As I said, a PS3 would be appealing, but I'd have to try it in my system.
 
I have the P75mk3. higher gain and noiseless than the mk2

my previous mk2 humming but not the mk3 version.

highly recommended if it is affordable price.

must get a regulated DC power supplies
 
Elephantears said:
No I didn't say neutrality, I said naturalism. And tonal colour is not the same as coloration.

As I said, a PS3 would be appealing, but I'd have to try it in my system.
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Im going to specsavers! I apologise for being so dim! Pound for pound the Icon is incredibly good value so a second hand one re-valved would me my choice without much thought. Have you heard one?
 
No, Just read very positive comments and one comparative review that preferred it to my Diablo/NCPSU. The only negative I've heard is that it can tend towards the blowsy and overly ripe, so perhaps the other direction from the Trichord and TE stages I'm used to. But I would hope that the valving could tweak that. MAX had one s/h at a good price recently but I was too late.
 
Of course the descriptions people annotate to analytical write ups on products is very subjective and very much influenced by the synergy of supporting equipment. I cant say id describe the PS3 as overly ripe in my system at all. For a valve stage (and i stress in my system) its very honest, very delicate and refined, not the quietest ive heard compared to solid state amps and care must be taken with earthing etc, but then as far as valves are concerned its probably the most silent ive heard and the darkness of slow laid back tracks is very impressive. When it comes to dynamics its way up there with a massive sound staging and great precision in defining constantly the individual aspects of a recording. Negative points...well i guess there is better out there but at 3 times the cost...i recently tried an Avid Pulsar II and yes it was very valve like for a solid state phono stage and even more refined than the PS3 but to me it just seemed a tad on the lame side for something almost 3 times the price.
 
Whilst we're on blowsy (which we are all spelling differently, but correctly, incidentally), I've actually been talking to the person (who shall remain nameless) who used that term in relation to the PS3. It's worth noting that he is a MI/MM fan, not an MC user, so he probably had enough ripeness in the cartridge already. If most MCs are leaner then I guess this kind of approach is just what they need.

Time will tell whether a different cartridge will provide a more suitable synergy with my existing Diablo/NCPSU, or whether I will need to start from the phono stage. This seems to me the hardest part of audio to get right, there being so many factors. But I'm gathering together a few things to try at home so hope to come to some conclusions within a couple of weeks.

m4m, what cart are you using with the PS3?

One other factor we perhaps neglect is the synergy between the phono stage and the pre. In this respect, I wonder if I should try a Whest P30SR. People often say this tends towards the lean and detailed, but I've heard it in a system with my amps (Unico Pre/DM) and there was a definite synergy. Hmmm...
 
Start out at base camp and consider the job of the phono stage.

To take a very small signal at typically <3mv, boost it to around 1v while applying an internationally agreed EQ curve.

To do this with inaudible noise and distortion (in a good domestic system setting) and EQ accuracy within 0.25dB limits costs a few hundred pounds given the simple circuitry required. If a stage costs thousands I would be seriously asking why, since there is absolutely no technical reason why it should.
 
Elephantears said:
m4m, what cart are you using with the PS3?
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Currently been using a Dynavector XV1-S. Fantastic cart but currently looking to change for other reasons. In the last 2 years Ive had Benz SLR Gullwing, Transfiguration Phoenix and Koetsu black. All worked very well with the caveat that the Koetsu (in comparison) didn't seem to bond well with the tubed Phono stage and was a little on the sweet side though I was loaned a Koetsu Urushi which was much better but all the above beaten hands down by the Dynavector. What I am going to replace it with is most likely be a VDH Crimson or Colibri....not sure yet as im still pondering
 
Robert said:
Start out at base camp and consider the job of the phono stage.

To take a very small signal at typically <3mv, boost it to around 1v while applying an internationally agreed EQ curve.

To do this with inaudible noise and distortion (in a good domestic system setting) and EQ accuracy within 0.25dB limits costs a few hundred pounds given the simple circuitry required. If a stage costs thousands I would be seriously asking why, since there is absolutely no technical reason why it should.
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Aha, an intervention on behalf of reason and objectivity!

With your points in mind, Robert, the question remains, in its bluntest terms; is there a cheapish one as good as the posh ones?
 
music4nusic said:
Currently been using a Dynavector XV1-S. Fantastic cart but currently looking to change for other reasons. In the last 2 years Ive had Benz SLR Gullwing, Transfiguration Phoenix and Koetsu black. All worked very well with the caveat that the Koetsu (in comparison) didn't seem to bond well with the tuned Phono stage and was a little on the sweet side though I was loaned a Koetsu Urushi which was much better but all the above beaten hands down by the Dynavector. What I am going to replace it with is most likely be a VDH Crimson or Colibri....not sure yet as im still pondering
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Posh ones, then, and lots that I really want to hear. But none that have stuck? I'm also very keen to hear the VdH. The MC One special is at a good price point for me.
 
Well, another unfashionable choice, but the Cambridge 641p is a good little unit; There are people always 'improving' it (and maybe they do) but I've compared it to some good stages costing many thousands....and it holds up perfectly well. You don't get the ultimate detail and dynamics but you get a high quality , well balanced, sound. For £120.
I use a very simple test. Would using the Cambridge spoil my musical enjoyment (compared with stages costing 25 times as much.) And the answer is : Not really.

You certainly can spend a lot more and get better (I have) but you really don't need to. You just don't. And for £500 (MM only) the Croft reigns supreme, for my tastes anyway.
 
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