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Andy's not sweating.

PaulMB said:
Not talking about "forgiveness," which only the victims can provide, Just that her 20 year sentence seems to show that justice has been done, while taking the spotlight off many people more guilty or as guilty as herself who will never even appear in court. Not to mention countless minor players, domestic staff, drivers, hotel managers, perhaps even the families of some of the girls, who must have known what was going on.
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Feeling sorry for her does imply you think she wasn’t the architect of her own misfortune though. That others may have escaped justice until now doesn’t lessen her culpability. As Tony says, she chose to hang out with some pretty unsavoury people, and indeed helped facilitate a lot of their awful behaviour.
 
You are quite right, of course. And yet I wonder how many people would, in the same circumstances, have refused to cooperate. And also that the whole weight of official retribution should fall on her, while the people she was doing it for are either dead or too important and powerful to get dragged into court. I have no idea what was going through her head, but people tend to rationalise what it is convenient for them to do very easily.
 
Jesus ****ing christ what sort of reprehensible pieces of shit do you associate with? Everybody I know would have extricated themselves from that social circle and I'm sure 99% of those would have dobbed them in.

The world really is full of selfish cnuts.
 
PaulMB said:
And yet I wonder how many people would, in the same circumstances, have refused to cooperate.
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Thankfully comparatively few people actively create a lucrative long-term career for themselves trafficking underage girls as sex objects to billionaires, politicians, royalty etc. As such I’d file her next to say Myra Hindley or Rose West rather than “many people”. The fact she refused to give up her pedophile ring means these extraordinarily wealthy abusers are all still at large.
 
sq225917 said:
Jesus ****ing christ what sort of reprehensible pieces of shit do you associate with? Everybody I know would have extricated themselves from that social circle and I'm sure 99% of those would have dobbed them in.

The world really is full of selfish cnuts.
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That is very rude and also very silly.
 
Tony L said:
Thankfully comparatively few people actively create a lucrative long-term career for themselves trafficking underage girls as sex objects to billionaires, politicians, royalty etc. As such I’d file her next to say Myra Hindley or Rose West rather than “many people”. The fact she refused to give up her pedophile ring means these extraordinarily wealthy abusers are all still at large.
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True, but she may be afraid of these people, now. "Accidents" can happen all too easily in prison to someone about to testify in court. A parallel I was thinking of was Eichmann, how he rose in the Nazi bureaucracy because of his amazing efficiency, in a state in which he was praised by his masters for what he was doing, in a world in which what he was doing was considered right. IMO they were right to hang him, if nothing else for revenge and to make an example. But how many bank officials with a promising career would disobey orders from above to call in a loan, knowing that by doing so they would bankrupt a small company and ruin a family?
Maxwell and her friends lived in a world of money and power, private islands and private jets, ex-presidents and royalty among their friends, in which they felt that anything money could buy to give them pleasure was permissible. Is it really reasonable to expect her to have rejected and denounced the very people who provided her with a jet-setting socialite position in the world, to have become a nobody with the very real risk of also being bumped off?
Of course I'm not saying she is innocent, but that one should try and understand how she could be a cynical procuress, probably without even realising it was wrong. Especially since she is the only one being punished.
 
PaulMB said:
True, but she may be afraid of these people, now. "Accidents" can happen all too easily in prison to someone about to testify in court. A parallel I was thinking of was Eichmann, how he rose in the Nazi bureaucracy because of his amazing efficiency, in a state in which he was praised by his masters for what he was doing, in a world in which what he was doing was considered right. IMO they were right to hang him, if nothing else for revenge and to make an example. But how many bank officials with a promising career would disobey orders from above to call in a loan, knowing that by doing so they would bankrupt a small company and ruin a family?
Maxwell and her friends lived in a world of money and power, private islands and private jets, ex-presidents and royalty among their friends, in which they felt that anything money could buy to give them pleasure was permissible. Is it really reasonable to expect her to have rejected and denounced the very people who provided her with a jet-setting socialite position in the world, to have become a nobody with the very real risk of also being bumped off?
Of course I'm not saying she is innocent, but that one should try and understand how she could be a cynical procuress, probably without even realising it was wrong. Especially since she is the only one being punished.
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Wrong.
“They’re nothing, these girls,” Maxwell once told a confidante. “They are trash.”
She got $30 million from Epstein to maintain a life style and in return knowingly procured under age girls for him for sex.
 
She could have walked away when Epstein was "locked" up the first time,but it was business as usual when he was released
Women can be just as predatory as men - most of the victims were fooled and trusted her because she was a woman
well deserved,if lenient,sentence,zero sympathy
ps she was also an active participant at times, with underage girls which I take too also be illegal
pps willing to be trafficked or not,it was still illegal
 
PaulMB said:
And with hordes of young girls who at the time were not unwilling to be "trafficked" in exchange for a taste of luxury and adventure.
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I can't convey in civil language just how utterly repellent this is. Such attitudes are exactly what enable serial sexual predators and allow them to get away with it. That you feel entirely comfortable in expressing that kind of sentiment is just bewildering to me. You might as well say that Jimmy Saville's victims asked for it.
 
I consider myself intelligent, but will someone explain to me ( in plain language) why Andrew paid a lot of money to someone he never met or even knew about ?
Most explanations I’ve come across go into legalese.
 
Martyn Miles said:
I consider myself intelligent, but will someone explain to me ( in plain language) why Andrew paid a lot of money to someone he never met or even knew about ?
Most explanations I’ve come across go into legalese.
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Because it's an out of court deal. We all know beyond doubt that he at least met her. We've all seen the photo. What his representatives did was say to her "listen, you can go to court, you'll have your say, you might win, against the finest legal minds in the business, you'll have the entire sexual history since Year Dot dragged out and printed around the world, you'll have a miserable time, for months of maybe years, and IF you win you'll get a sum of money. Alternatively, we can give you an astronomical sum of money, a private apology, and in exchange you will never, ever talk about it again in public. Now sign here, and bear in mind that if you ever break this agreement we'll have it all back, and more, with costs. This is no public admission of guilt, and if you so much as breathe otherwise that's breaking the agreement." Etc .
You will have noticed that the woman in question has absolutely disappeared from the media and has been as silent as the grave ever since the signing of the cheque. That's the deal.
 
stevec67 said:
Because it's an out of court deal. We all know beyond doubt that he at least met her. We've all seen the photo. What his representatives did was say to her "listen, you can go to court, you'll have your say, you might win, against the finest legal minds in the business, you'll have the entire sexual history since Year Dot dragged out and printed around the world, you'll have a miserable time, for months of maybe years, and IF you win you'll get a sum of money. Alternatively, we can give you an astronomical sum of money, a private apology, and in exchange you will never, ever talk about it again in public. Now sign here, and bear in mind that if you ever break this agreement we'll have it all back, and more, with costs. This is no public admission of guilt, and if you so much as breathe otherwise that's breaking the agreement." Etc .
You will have noticed that the woman in question has absolutely disappeared from the media and has been as silent as the grave ever since the signing of the cheque. That's the deal.
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She didn’t sign an NDA and is reportedly writing a book…
 
PaulMB said:
True, but she may be afraid of these people, now. "Accidents" can happen all too easily in prison to someone about to testify in court. A parallel I was thinking of was Eichmann, how he rose in the Nazi bureaucracy because of his amazing efficiency, in a state in which he was praised by his masters for what he was doing, in a world in which what he was doing was considered right. IMO they were right to hang him, if nothing else for revenge and to make an example. But how many bank officials with a promising career would disobey orders from above to call in a loan, knowing that by doing so they would bankrupt a small company and ruin a family?
Maxwell and her friends lived in a world of money and power, private islands and private jets, ex-presidents and royalty among their friends, in which they felt that anything money could buy to give them pleasure was permissible. Is it really reasonable to expect her to have rejected and denounced the very people who provided her with a jet-setting socialite position in the world, to have become a nobody with the very real risk of also being bumped off?
Of course I'm not saying she is innocent, but that one should try and understand how she could be a cynical procuress, probably without even realising it was wrong. Especially since she is the only one being punished.
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You seem to be alluding to some sort of Stanford prison experiment scenario where some high pressure situation cause people to defer to authority and do bad things, this wasn’t a war zone like My Lai, it wasn’t Abu Graib where the on highs gave tacit permission to some not so smart people, this is a bright, well educated person who knew perfectly well what they were doing was wrong and had ample opportunity to walk away and report it, she has no excuse.
 
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