A user's guide to John Zorn

[foxwelljsly]

I remember going to see a Zorn gig at the Barbican featuring Painkiller and Tony Oxley and being curiously underwhelmed. It was certainly nothing like this total monster which is currently playing chez foxwell. This is closer to Praxis and funky as all hell.

 

[sideshowbob]

I remember that night at the Barbican. Oxley aside, it was poor, and Bill Laswell was intensely annoying as I remember, it was hard to hear anybody else playing.

 

[foxwelljsly]

I remember that night at the Barbican. Oxley aside, it was poor, and Bill Laswell was intensely annoying as I remember, it was hard to hear anybody else playing.

For some reason, I recall it as matinee gig - a series of gigs with a Crowley theme? I kind of let him alone for a while after that until The Dreamers dragged me back in again.

 

[sideshowbob]

For some reason, I recall it as matinee gig - a series of gigs with a Crowley theme? I kind of let him alone for a while after that until The Dreamers dragged me back in again.

Yes, it was supposed to be some kind of Crowley event, you remember right. Like you, it completely put me off him for a long time, it was so thoroughly bogus and dull.

 

[kjb]

Reviving this thread to avoid a very enjoyable exchange with @Marchbanks and others taking over the What Are You Listening to... thread

I've got part one of The Circle Maker as a dodgy download from many years back (sorry John, I've made it up to you since) but @foxwelljsly has also recommended it to me, so buying the double set is on my list. (I blame him for leading me down the Zorn path, first by allowing me to buy two Angels CDs he was selling, then nonchalantly introducing me to At the Mountains of Madness as if it was just an interesting record, and not a life-changing experience.

Anyway, things look more promising for a full night outside tonight (I can see a hazy moon) so let's start with Ipos, no 14.

@Marchbanks, I've got the Electric Masada 50th Birthday CD with the same band and virtually the same set list as Mountains of Madness. As a result I've not ever been tempted by the 2nd set but was intrigued by your comment about it being life-changing. Tell me more!

Kevin

 

[foxwelljsly]

Reviving this thread to avoid a very enjoyable exchange with @Marchbanks and others taking over the What Are You Listening to... thread




@Marchbanks, I've got the Electric Masada 50th Birthday CD with the same band and virtually the same set list as Mountains of Madness. As a result I've not ever been tempted by the 2nd set but was intrigued by your comment about it being life-changing. Tell me more!

Kevin

I have a bunch of the 50th anniversary series, but not that one. I think @claire.foxx hipped me to the mountains of madness and it took the top of my head off. Possibly the most complete album I’ve ever heard.

 

[Marchbanks]

Reviving this thread to avoid a very enjoyable exchange with @Marchbanks and others taking over the What Are You Listening to... thread

Oops, hope that wasn’t my fault... I admit my posts are never tightly focussed (like me in general) and I ramble on about all kinds of nonsense, but in all honesty I was writing about what I was listening to at the time (with the de rigueur picture of the source.)

@Marchbanks, I've got the Electric Masada 50th Birthday CD with the same band and virtually the same set list as Mountains of Madness. As a result I've not ever been tempted by the 2nd set but was intrigued by your comment about it being life-changing. Tell me more!

Kevin

I have a bunch of the 50th anniversary series, but not that one. I think @claire.foxx hipped me to the mountains of madness and it took the top of my head off. Possibly the most complete album I’ve ever heard.

I don’t have the 50th birthday Electric Masada either (yet) so I can’t compare. I called it life-changing because I hadn’t been aware of music quite like that before - music (and performances) that hit so many right buttons for me. Basically it took the top of my head off too. Ribot is amazing (his solo on Abidan CD1 is perfect), Jamie Saft’s multo distorto Fender Rhodes is utterly exhilarating when he really goes for it (Metal Tov, CD1), the question ‘why the hell do you need two great drummers in your band’ is answered in Idalah-Abal CD2, Trevor Dunn is obviously an overlooked genius and even the synth burblings are a genuine positive.

Interesting that the line of recommendation going back from me reaches Claire - not for the first time in my case.

 

[hockman]

The 50th birthday set is excellent but I'd argue that Mountains is even more intense and crazy. Go for it!

 

[sideshowbob]

The 50th birthday set is excellent but I'd argue that Mountains is even more intense and crazy. Go for it!

When I wrote the original post the only Electric Masada available was the 50th birthday recording. I saw them live in London shortly after that post and they clean blew my head off, still one of the very best gigs I ever heard (I remember they started with a MASSIVE power chord, which made me grin from ear to ear, and then just WENT FOR IT. It was immense).

At the Mountains of Madness came out some time after that and would now be in any Zorn top 5 I would put together, possibly even above Naked City.

I haven't bought any new Zorn releases for a long time, I kind of lost interest in his new material when a lot of it started to feel too casual and throwaway, as if he was releasing stuff out of a desire to document everything, regardless, and some of his aesthetic choices struck a wrong note with me. His Crowley event in London mentioned upthread was a real low point, a truly terrible gig, and a wasted opportunity. I should probably check out some of the stuff he's put out in the last 10 years, now the dust has settled a bit.

 

[foxwelljsly]

Oops, hope that wasn’t my fault... I admit my posts are never tightly focussed (like me in general) and I ramble on about all kinds of nonsense, but in all honesty I was writing about what I was listening to at the time (with the de rigueur picture of the source.)




I don’t have the 50th birthday Electric Masada either (yet) so I can’t compare. I called it life-changing because I hadn’t been aware of music quite like that before - music (and performances) that hit so many right buttons for me. Basically it took the top of my head off too. Ribot is amazing (his solo on Abidan CD1 is perfect), Jamie Saft’s multo distorto Fender Rhodes is utterly exhilarating when he really goes for it (Metal Tov, CD1), the question ‘why the hell do you need two great drummers in your band’ is answered in Idalah-Abal CD2, Trevor Dunn is obviously an overlooked genius and even the synth burblings are a genuine positive.

Interesting that the line of recommendation going back from me reaches Claire - not for the first time in my case.

On the periphery of the Zorn canon, and definitely more rock/funk than jazz, but have you heard the Praxis album ‘Transmutation’? Bernie Worrell & Bootsy from Funkadelic, Buckethead on guitar, Zorn on Sax and Laswell on bass and production. Kind of Albert Ayler and Funkadelic go full metal/spacerock. A good test of where your musical boundaries lie, as much of it is pretty intense psychedelic thrash.

They made one other album, but that was even more thrashy with Mick Harris of Napalm Death on drums.

 

[hockman]

I'm in the same boat. I bought and listened to tons of the Zorn Masada stuff. As I said in the other thread, I don't seem to derive the same amount of pleasure from the later stuff aside from the odd album or two. His output is so prolific I feel it necessary to cherry pick only the albums that appeal. Plus a lot of the old guys that I like no longer seem to play with him anymore.

When I wrote the original post the only Electric Masada available was the 50th birthday recording. I saw them live in London shortly after that post and they clean blew my head off, still one of the very best gigs I ever heard (I remember they started with a MASSIVE power chord, which made me grin from ear to ear, and then just WENT FOR IT. It was immense).

At the Mountains of Madness came out some time after that and would now be in any Zorn top 5 I would put together, possibly even above Naked City.

I haven't bought any new Zorn releases for a long time, I kind of lost interest in his new material when a lot of it started to feel too casual and throwaway, as if he was releasing stuff out of a desire to document everything, regardless, and some of his aesthetic choices struck a wrong note with me. His Crowley event in London mentioned upthread was a real low point, a truly terrible gig, and a wasted opportunity. I should probably check out some of the stuff he's put out in the last 10 years, now the dust has settled a bit.

 

[kasperhauser]

I came across The Gift yesterday and (as a Martin Denny and general exotica fan) am really enjoying it, but it's about as challenging as I'm prepared to go with Zorn I'm afraid. Tried some of the more "energetic" stuff and didn't make it very far.

On a side note, the cover/insert art for The Gift makes me uncomfortable. I doubt that's an accident.

 

[Eoin]

Just found this thread.

Therefore just found out about Zorn, whom I’d never heard of before.

I feel like I’m falling down the rabbit hole..

 

[paulfromcamden]

Just found this thread.

Therefore just found out about Zorn, whom I’d never heard of before.

I feel like I’m falling down the rabbit hole..

Recommend watching the fantastic doc Put Blood In The Music from 1989 - first half Zorn, second half Sonic Youth, whole thing late 80s NY.

P.S. How fantastic is the footage of Zorn's Spy Vs Spy band? Still sounds absolutely incredible.

 

[hockman]

I came across The Gift yesterday and (as a Martin Denny and general exotica fan) am really enjoying it, but it's about as challenging as I'm prepared to go with Zorn I'm afraid. Tried some of the more "energetic" stuff and didn't make it very far.

On a side note, the cover/insert art for The Gift makes me uncomfortable. I doubt that's an accident.

If most Zorn prove too challenging for you, I recommend the more 'surf' music albums similar to the Gift: O'o and the Dreamers. Bar Kokhba will probably work as well. I like a lot of Zorn's music except the real noisy stuff.

Yes I think the cover of the Gift is meant to push boundaries. Such imagery is not that unusual in Japan which is where Zorn probably got the idea from, since he spent a good amount of time there.

 

[paulfromcamden]

Yes I think the cover of the Gift is meant to push boundaries. Such imagery is not that unusual in Japan which is where Zorn probably got the idea from, since he spent a good amount of time there.

The artwork is by British artist Trevor Brown who had previously worked with industrial and noise artists like Whitehouse. He's also done a bunch of Venetian Snares covers. His work seems to be obsessed with young Asian girls and is often explicit, sado-masochistic or violent. I really dislike it.

Zorn has a few questionable sleeves. The artwork for the Naked City album Leng Tch'e features a photo of someone being tortured by being sliced up alive. It's the sort of thing I would have thought was cool as a moody teenager but now find repellent.

 

[Eoin]

Never could get on with Venetian Snares. Something not quite right there, couldn’t put my finger on it. Tried a couple of times.