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A user's guide to John Zorn

paulfromcamden said:
Youtube link for the South Bank Show (I kept my VHS recording for years until I realised pretty much everything turns up on Youtube eventually!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-2sb9DcgUI

The Gift on the face of it is jazzy easy-listening surf rock. But it get's progressively more unsettling as it goes on...
Click to expand...

BTW, thanks for the link – finally got round to watching. The Zorn section is really interesting and takes me back....

I also got the sense that this guy should be a real inspiration for young musicians and composers. He's really worth listening to and his approach to making music has been a radical departure in its many aspects - not just the composition or playing but the thought and strategies behind it. Also the fact that he is not partisinal in terms of genre.
 
paulfromcamden said:
Youtube link for the South Bank Show (I kept my VHS recording for years until I realised pretty much everything turns up on Youtube eventually!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-2sb9DcgUI

The Gift on the face of it is jazzy easy-listening surf rock. But it get's progressively more unsettling as it goes on...
Click to expand...

Enjoying The Gift more and more. He gets a great recorded sound on these exotica works too. I have ordered volume 2 of this (Music Romance) series – Taboo and Exile.
 
John Zorn Naked CIty (the Nonesuch LP) is getting a vinyl repress from a label called '1972'.

I'd like this LP, but I'm a bit suspicious, as the label has no web-presence or info about how this album was mastered in the press release. In the past they have put out some Stereolab and Aphex twin stuff. Of course I wonder what they used for a source...

Anyone know anything about their reputation?
 
mr.datsun said:
John Zorn Naked CIty (the Nonesuch LP) is getting a vinyl repress from a label called '1972'.

I'd like this LP, but I'm a bit suspicious, as the label has no web-presence or info about how this album was mastered in the press release. In the past they have put out some Stereolab and Aphex twin stuff. Of course I wonder what they used for a source...

Anyone know anything about their reputation?
Click to expand...

Well the Stereolab releases were done without input from the band and the Aphex SAW2 got a lot of flac since the track list flagged it as being the US CD cut to vinyl.
 
John Zorn First Recordings.

I've been listening to this for the first time. So far concentrating on the first three tracks – 'Mikhail Zoetrope recorded in 1974, which total 44 minutes. These recordings are typically flagged as 'for Zorn completists' and 'of interest'. I'm not a Zorn completist but I find these really are of interest. A collage of improvised music, voice, sounds and film samples recorded onto stereo tape, one channel at a time. Many of his later interests are here and whilst being raw, youthful and wild. I'm probably in a minority but I find it both fascinating and refreshing.
 
Imagine being a Zorn completist. How big a house would you need? I wonder if even Zorn is a Zorn completist?
 
According to Discogs he's only ever put out four singles - one a split with Napalm Death and another a split with Yoko Ono - so maybe collecting the singles is the way to go :)
 
A heads up for the recent (2017) LP release of Spy Vs Spy on the Music on Vinyl label.

It's been years since I heard the original pressing, so I can't compare - but I am mightily impressed with the sound quality of this reissue, which is never murky despite the dense nature of the music with two drummers and two saxophonists going at Ornette Coleman's music hammer and tongs.

What's more it's a nice flat disc which is a rarity these days.

Thoroughly enjoyed listening to this last night, not to forget the fantastic cover artwork as well - totally recommended.

mat
 
Spy Vs Spy and Spillane were the first two Zorn LPs I ever got - after watching the South Bank doc in the late 80s. Still two of all-time favourite records.

[YOUTUBE]tQkM3jpw768?t=128[/YOUTUBE]
 
paulfromcamden said:
Spy Vs Spy and Spillane were the first two Zorn LPs I ever got - after watching the South Bank doc in the late 80s. Still two of all-time favourite records.

[YOUTUBE]tQkM3jpw768?t=128[/YOUTUBE]
Click to expand...

I'll have to give the documentary a watch.

The ferocious speed they take with the playing is phenomenal - I will have another listening session tonight with a glass or two.

mat
 
mmaatt said:
A heads up for the recent (2017) LP release of Spy Vs Spy on the Music on Vinyl label.

It's been years since I heard the original pressing, so I can't compare - but I am mightily impressed with the sound quality of this reissue, which is never murky despite the dense nature of the music with two drummers and two saxophonists going at Ornette Coleman's music hammer and tongs.

What's more it's a nice flat disc which is a rarity these days.

Thoroughly enjoyed listening to this last night, not to forget the fantastic cover artwork as well - totally recommended.

mat
Click to expand...

Tempting. I do wonder whether it's better than the Nonsesuch LP.... but I suspect the sound of the album is baked into the recording.
 
thanks for the zorn reminder- i had naked city when it first came out - great... though I never really explored much more than that - also thanks for the documentary link paul
 
Thanks Paul and Mat for keeping this thread alive from time to time,
it's worth it and a nice inspiration.

I got the Gundown CD a few years ago due this thread, mainly bc I was curious what this John Zorn phenomenon is all about.
My musical emphasis by then was Trip Hop, Pop, Rock and a little Electronics...the Gundown had me laugh out hard during listening by then.
I admired it a lot, but did not think I would actually listen to it often.

It was only when I discovered and learnt to love classic Jazz in recent years, I now come back to John Zorn from an entirey different direction.
Put the Gundown into my 'CD Carousel'...a large row of my ~300 momentary faves I hear in circle.
(I realized I tend to forget good CD once put into storage and buy others just to forget them the same.
Now I give them 3-5 attempt rounds in my carousel and if I still don't like them, I sell them instead of storing them)

Anyways...the Gundown playing brought me back here..and it's truely wonderful. Ok, I admit I still laugh out at times..

By the way there is an arangement from the rather young, but in the Jazz Scene highly venerated pianist Michael Wollny
which in some way reminds me of John Zorns work from the creativity and complexity.

Wollny was asked by the Norwegian Wind Orchestra to work with them.
The Wind Orchestra as I understood it, is a classic conducted orchestra in first instance, but,
the same the individual musicians -all of them excellent- have a certain individual freedom within everything that happens,
just like in Jazz..the result is mindblowing and of almost obscene quality. (recording ACT)
This whole orchestra reaches a speed in full perfection while in free interpretation, a bit like fly-artists, I had a feeling at times my scullcap would lift off any moment bc I had trouble processing what they did. Remarkable experience..for me, anyway.

Wollny brought 2 CDs at once this month, one his classic Trio with Emile Parisien from Paris on Sopran Saxophone live at the Wartburg, Germany
and his live work with the Norwegian Wind Orchestra.

Wanted to get the Wartburg only bc the new -to-me Wollny looked half a kid and I tend to distrust wet-ear-looking people for true musical experience.
But I had to get them both..it was no question.
Researching I found out Wollny is ~double his visual age of ~20 though, and even then I fail to understand how he could gather such experience and profession so quickly, according to what I hear.
Sorry for part OT in the John Zorn thread, but I can recommend sticking an ear into Wollnys work and you will understand how I come to him exactly here...people with a soft spot for John Zorn will take Wollny volley.

And back on topic...I ordered 'Spillane' today.
Carousel is jogging on-spot in eager anticipation.. :)

Kind regards, T
 
torstoi said:
Thanks Paul and Mat for keeping this thread alive from time to time,
it's worth it and a nice inspiration.

I got the Gundown CD a few years ago due this thread, mainly bc I was curious what this John Zorn phenomenon is all about.
My musical emphasis by then was Trip Hop, Pop, Rock and a little Electronics...the Gundown had me laugh out hard during listening by then.
I admired it a lot, but did not think I would actually listen to it often.

It was only when I discovered and learnt to love classic Jazz in recent years, I now come back to John Zorn from an entirey different direction.
Put the Gundown into my 'CD Carousel'...a large row of my ~300 momentary faves I hear in circle.
(I realized I tend to forget good CD once put into storage and buy others just to forget them the same.
Now I give them 3-5 attempt rounds in my carousel and if I still don't like them, I sell them instead of storing them)

Anyways...the Gundown playing brought me back here..and it's truely wonderful. Ok, I admit I still laugh out at times..

By the way there is an arangement from the rather young, but in the Jazz Scene highly venerated pianist Michael Wollny
which in some way reminds me of John Zorns work from the creativity and complexity.

Wollny was asked by the Norwegian Wind Orchestra to work with them.
The Wind Orchestra as I understood it, is a classic conducted orchestra in first instance, but,
the same the individual musicians -all of them excellent- have a certain individual freedom within everything that happens,
just like in Jazz..the result is mindblowing and of almost obscene quality. (recording ACT)
This whole orchestra reaches a speed in full perfection while in free interpretation, a bit like fly-artists, I had a feeling at times my scullcap would lift off any moment bc I had trouble processing what they did. Remarkable experience..for me, anyway.

Wollny brought 2 CDs at once this month, one his classic Trio with Emile Parisien from Paris on Sopran Saxophone live at the Wartburg, Germany
and his live work with the Norwegian Wind Orchestra.

Wanted to get the Wartburg only bc the new -to-me Wollny looked half a kid and I tend to distrust wet-ear-looking people for true musical experience.
But I had to get them both..it was no question.
Researching I found out Wollny is ~double his visual age of ~20 though, and even then I fail to understand how he could gather such experience and profession so quickly, according to what I hear.
Sorry for part OT in the John Zorn thread, but I can recommend sticking an ear into Wollnys work and you will understand how I come to him exactly here...people with a soft spot for John Zorn will take Wollny volley.

And back on topic...I ordered 'Spillane' today.
Carousel is jogging on-spot in eager anticipation.. :)

Kind regards, T
Click to expand...
Hi Torstoi, which track on Oslo is an adaptation of Zorn?

I'm a huge fan of Wollny. I have pretty much everything he's released and I'm really looking forward to hearing the two new CDs.

I discovered him years ago when I took a complete punt on the third album by his original trio, called [em], and I've been hooked ever since.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Em-3-Michael-Wollny/dp/B0010SU4EI/ref=sr_1_4?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1523133695&sr=1-4&keywords=wollny+[em]

Other favourites include his solo piano album Hexentanz and the big band version of Wunderkammer:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000MTEDV6/?tag=pinkfishmedia-21
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00DRP1RWU/?tag=pinkfishmedia-21

I've seen him live twice. Once in Cologne with the original [em] trio (I sort of organised a long weekend around that gig), and once in my home city of Sheffield with the current trio. The latter concert was just phenomenal.

Think I'll have to fill in a few gaps in my Wollny collection...
 
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Hi droodzilla,
sorry if my post was misleading, but I don't think Wollny has adapted anything of John Zorn yet.
Also I wouldn't discribe him as 'alike' John Zorn or even similar sounding, as you well know he has his very own highly creative personality.
It was merely the paralellity of both's capability to bring utterly complex structures into a no less gigantic frame.

Thanks for your tips, I will get them all 3..always happy when I get a lead in where to step in first.
I did a bit of reading about him ..and while he was always very good, between the lines I sensed he has still grown from (em) and
my impression is, his 2 works 'Live at the Wartburg" & 'Norwegian Wind Orchestra' might well be showing him among his best up to now.
I'd have difficulty suggesting one of them over the other, really.
The Norwegian Wind Orchestra recording though is the one that reminds me of John Zorn,
the Wartburg is more the direction of classic Jazz approach, with freshly mixed cards, though..
They are different enough to not have you left with the impression having bought the same thing two times,
very different approach, frame, musicians and also style.

I'd love to go to one of his concerts some day, must have been an awesome experience you had ! :)

Kind regards,
T
 
Ah, OK, I understand. Yes, different beasts but both hugely talented. I've barely scratched the surface with Zorn, having only heard Gundown, a few Filmworks CDs and a couple of other odds and ends. His body of work is so vast, it's hard to know how to make progress.

I can believe Wollny's latest might be among hos very best work - releasing two albums at the same time is a clear statement of confidence. Can't wait to hear them!

BW, Nigel
 
Rgrdg John Zorn,,yes, I had the same problem..not knowing where to start..
But this thread by sideshowbob who sadly seems to be here no more helped me to stick my toe into the water at least.
Took a while,,but,,here I am exploring further, really appreciate Tony's place for good orientation in several topics,
formerly rather hardware...meanwhile more interested in xp for exploring new musical grounds.

In both CDs is a nice writeup about the whole story of each project, a few pages long.
I read a bit during listening and found that it had initially not been intended to make CDs from those recordings.
They had an excellent sound engineer with them at the tour dates, both
who did all the acoustic installations and he initially recorded both events with the sole goal to have them being capable to listen
what they had done, what could be made better and so on+ as a diary, a nice memory.
So at the time of the concerts none of the musicians was aware he'd be recorded for an album, it was 'merely' a live concert.
Later, home again, the sound engineer went into his studio, listened to the stuff, arranged both events
and called the musicians.
Only then they realized this is too good to not release it.
But which of them..?
By what they were hearing the answer was clear..

BW, T
(btw you're not coincidently connected to certain Lenco speed controllers..? :)
 
15 years on from the initial post & I have arrived at 'Naked City'.
I wanted to get this up once more, first off because I think it is worth it.
Second to apologise..in review it feels a bit wrong I jammed this thread with talk about Micheal Wollny.
Wollny may be nice and has his own place, but meanwhile I have to admit the statement he could be compared with Zorn is pure nonsense.
Wollny's complexity to me is kind of linear, though complex it can be understood the first time & listening to it more often it's not like additional layers reaveal.

With Zorn, especially 'Naked City' I was put off first, convinced I cannot hear this again for sure.
Listening more often, I still got on with it really hard,,but started to feel there's something out it.
To me- similar to an exponential equation perhaps- you brain really get's something to bite on.
There are other Zorn outputs with far more easy access, but to me this one is worth it.
Depends on where you're at with your listening experience..
For Zornians it may be just good stuff,
beginners though may feel like some crash-test-dummy when running into this.

Anyways, I had 'Naked City' on rotation since about 2 years now & it transformed from 'not listenable' early stage to something I really enjoy listening to meanwhile.

I can really recommend not give up on this in an early stage, it does pay out in the end.

I feel Jazz fans have a bit of a head-start with John Zorn bc they are used to a certain level of complexity already.
Zorn refused to be put into the Jazz corner even remotely, but I think his music fits quite well as a spicy wake-up call inbetween for those who listen to a lot of Jazz.
I wouldn't call it Jazz myself, but in a greater sheme it fit's that kind of listening habbit somewhat the best.

Up to now I own: 'Solus Locus', 'The Big Gundown', 'Spy vs.Spy' & 'Naked City'

I'll add another CD of him every once in a while, but feel no hurry to get a lot within short time.
As it was asked earlier, where to start...Ian's list is great to stick to.

That's what I do, anyway...and when you find something you get really good access to and like more of the same, like me with 'Naked City' now, I'll dive further into that.

I wouldn't need more of The Big Gundown for example, which stands for itself,is great & there's no Gundown Series anyway, but even if there was, I wouldn't need more of it.

But 'Naked City' is great and if you like to push your limits a bit, I can really recommend it.
And stick your nose even a bit further into that series later perhaps, should you get along with it well.

My earlier posts with Michael Wollny content can be deleted away if an admin find they don't fit in too well.
I meanwhile find they really don't, so I'd be fine with that.

Big thanks for Ian again for creating the thread, the initial post is 15 yrs old meanwhile,
but not dated at all...I still continue discovering great music coming back to it every few years..
 
I’ve been looking for a copy of The Complete Naked City at a good price for a while. Last year I was in Manchester and went into King Bee to try my luck. “Naked City...” the owner frowned “...that’s John Zorn, isn’t it?” I said he was correct. Then he went online to take a look and winced at the prices. “I see your problem,” he said. Then he read the description. “Bloody hell, I bet that’s tough going!” he laughed.
 
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