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A thread to catalogue the eloquence, dignity, diplomacy and wisdom of Boris Johnson: IV VONC

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notaclue said:
Even if Johnson loses, I bet he'll do a Trump and refuse to recognise the result.
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I wondered whether he be removed as leader and remain PM.

The Cabinet Manual says that a PM "will normally be the accepted leader of a political party that commands the majority of the House of Commons", but it does not say that this must be the case.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/prime-minister-lost-seat-general-election

My guess is in practise it would be very hard for him to continue but it appears that legally he could refuse to step down and we'd end up in a kind of stalemate.
 
paulfromcamden said:
I wondered whether he be removed as leader and remain PM.

The Cabinet Manual says that a PM "will normally be the accepted leader of a political party that commands the majority of the House of Commons", but it does not say that this must be the case.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/prime-minister-lost-seat-general-election

My guess is in practise it would be very hard for him to continue but it appears that legally he could refuse to step down and we'd end up in a kind of stalemate.
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I think the Cabinet Manual is likely envisaging a scenario where the PM might be the leader of a party which doesn't command the majority of the House (eg a minority government) rather than the PM will be anyone other than the leader of a party, though.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
I think the Cabinet Manual is likely envisaging a scenario where the PM might be the leader of a party which doesn't command the majority of the House (eg a minority government) rather than the PM will be anyone other than the leader of a party, though.
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I think you're right. But we also have a PM who has a poor track record when it comes to acting within the spirit of the law.

Speaking of rules, interesting to see Graham Brady confirm this morning that it would be possible to change the 1922 rules to allow a second ballot within the next 12 months.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
I'd put Thatcher ahead of May in the pantheon of worst PMs ever. I know she gets a lot of credit in some circles for fixing things that had broken by the 1970s, but many would argue that her cure was, certainly in the long term, worse than the disease.
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Take your point and I loathed and despised Thatcher, but May had one job and a single issue effectively. Then with one absurd proclamation, known as the Lancaster House speech, she consigned her whole term to failure which of course led to most of the current issues.
 
paulfromcamden said:
I think you're right. But we also have a PM who has a poor track record when it comes to acting within the spirit of the law.

Speaking of rules, interesting to see Graham Brady confirm this morning that it would be possible to change the 1922 rules to allow a second ballot within the next 12 months.
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The tories are scum and will do anything for self preservation he’s toast if they lose the two by-elections despite what happens today he’s toast anyway no PM survives being booed at a royal event and in a restaurant within days this happened to churchhill back in 1945 or so at some dog track in the east end when the crowd turned on the far Bstard.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ion-despite-leading-Britain-WWII-victory.html
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
I think the Cabinet Manual is likely envisaging a scenario where the PM might be the leader of a party which doesn't command the majority of the House (eg a minority government) rather than the PM will be anyone other than the leader of a party, though.
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I'm sure that was what was envisaged. Nevertheless the wording now provides what looks suspiciously like a loophole.
 
Never a bloke Ive been particularly keen on, but Alistair Campbell just finished a blistering precis of Johnson's uselessness on Sky news. It was a passionate delivery. He even has some crossover agreement with Sir Roger Gale. They do both seem to communicate an air of integrity(?) - maybe they could jointly head up an emergency government, to get us out the present shit!!
 
Nic Robinson said:
It's a problem when an individual like BJ and May before him believe they were born to be PM.
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The difference is that Theresa May knew that the post of PM wasn't just a destination at the top of the greasy pole, there was a job to do, not just glad-handing foreign leaders in photo ops.

Like most other PMs, she also didn't burn all of her time trying to be popular with everyone.
 
I don’t like Alistair Campbell. I’ll never forgive him for being such a key part of Labour dragging the UK into a truly vile neoconservative Republican party vengeance war that totally destabilised the middle east to this day, but I find myself agreeing with him on many things these days. He was absolutely right about Brexit and always made good clear arguments, he is right about Johnson too. He’s still a twunt though.
 
poppop said:
Never a bloke Ive been particularly keen on, but Alistair Campbell just finished a blistering precis of Johnson's uselessness on Sky news. It was a passionate delivery. He even has some crossover agreement with Sir Roger Gale. They do both seem to communicate an air of integrity(?) - maybe they could jointly head up an emergency government, to get us out the present shit!!
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Boris Johnson will win the VONC tonight. It's a tactical error for those looking to get rid; it's too early (he still has lot of supporters) and the alternative is a two or three month gap looking for a 'suitable' replacement, assuming one is there.

The line coming out of CCH is that winning the VONC shold draw a line under 'Partygate' etc etc and time to move on. However, it won't finish anything - those MPs who have briefed about his awfulness 'off the record' (like Jesse Norman) may become less shy. The Conservative Party doesn't like to be seen eating itself in public (that's a Labour Party thing) and any protracted period of infighting topped off with worsening polls (from a struggling economy) and two by-election defeats, will be the catalyst for him to go.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
I'd put Thatcher ahead of May in the pantheon of worst PMs ever.
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Thatcher had a few redeeming features, e.g. the BBC Computer Literacy Project, the Enterprise Allowance Scheme etc. The impact of both are still hugely felt today. Much of the UK’s dominance in IT dates from this time, plus huge numbers of great businesses started on the Enterprise Allowance scheme in all fields e.g. games development houses, record labels etc. I’d describe the ‘80s UK hi-fi scene as inherently Thatcherite. Make of that what you will!

I don’t think you can find a single positive for David Cameron, Theresa May or Boris Johnson. Each one a 100% liability bringing only jingoism, division, poverty, visceral racism, corruption and vast inequality and economic damage.
 
I hope he survives the VONC, not just because the longer he's at the helm of the party the more beleaguered he, and it will be; but also because it will make clear to any remaining Tories what sort of people they have in Parliament, if they will step up to support such a truly awful man as this.
 
If Boris loses and is no longer PM at the end of today, I’m assuming that Raab will become acting PM. Out of the frying pan and into the fire ?
 
There is no doubt that the Tories are in for a bumpy ride with 2 by elections looming, so either BJ is kept on to own these up coming defeats or we could have the shortest lived PM in political history. I consider this a win win situation :)
 
Seeker_UK said:
Boris Johnson will win the VONC tonight. It's a tactical error for those looking to get rid; it's too early (he still has lot of supporters) and the alternative is a two or three month gap looking for a 'suitable' replacement, assuming one is there.

The line coming out of CCH is that winning the VONC shold draw a line under 'Partygate' etc etc and time to move on. However, it won't finish anything - those MPs who have briefed about his awfulness 'off the record' (like Jesse Norman) may become less shy. The Conservative Party doesn't like to be seen eating itself in public (that's a Labour Party thing) and any protracted period of infighting topped off with worsening polls (from a struggling economy) and two by-election defeats, will be the catalyst for him to go.
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Johnson will win the VONC, but interesting will be what the Covid Inquiry due in the spring reveals. The terms of reference have yet to be announced, but Scotland will be holding its own inquiry this year.

If the Covid Inquiry doesn’t reignite opposition to Johnson, something will, an inquiry into the legality of Rwandan deportations maybe? Another piece of red meat Johnson throws to his more rabid supporters? NHS underfunding might, at last, cut through?
 
I think he will survive. He has filled the party with Brexit yes-men like my sad, sorry excuse for an MP who does FA in Parliament and votes for whatever the whip tells him. He's a sock-puppet MP, we would have a pantomime horse but it was too much of an asset to the party and went elsewhere.
 
I reckon he will survive. And then seek revenge on the rebels. Will make the Cabinet even worse. Full of incompetents, promoted only because they don't threaten Johnson.
 
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