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A high quality CD Player

Esoteric make good product. I have their phono stage. However they have moved distributor from Symmetry (very good) to Onkyo - a massive conglomerate. I would have questions re: their after sales support and suggest the OP checks it out thoroughly.
 
mattgbell said:
Could you please clarify for me what in your mind the distinction is between precision and accuracy? know we've been here before; I just can't recall what the argument was.
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Accuracy refers to how closely one thing correlates with another; so digital accurately records the original signal, because they closely resemble one another. Precision is essentially the number of decimal places: how far do you go to describe something.
 
radamel said:
Despite all the theoretical knowledge you think you may have, have you ever actually listened to an Esoteric setup with external Master Clock vs internal Master clock?
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If you ask them, I don't think even the manufacturers would claim any differences in clock accuracy would be more than faintly detectable by a super golden eared, very young, trained listener, with an extremely familiar killer sample, played very very loud, through ultra high quality active monitors.

Some people do seem to be able to hear these things, but we're talking about minutiae that are on the very limits of human perception and of not even the remotest musical significance.
 
hammeredklavier said:
Accuracy refers to how closely one thing correlates with another; so digital accurately records the original signal, because they closely resemble one another. Precision is essentially the number of decimal places: how far do you go to describe something.
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You're wrong.
 
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adamdea said:
I think this is a good explanation. Of course context matters.
www.dspguide.com/ch2/7.htm
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Thanks, but why am I wrong? Accuracy is how closely your measurement correlates with (or represents) reality, i.e., what you're measuring; precision is best thought of as a margin of error. If you have a big margin of error, i.e. poor accuracy, then use fewer decimal places because more would be meaningless, if you have high accuracy, then report more decimal places because they are meaningful.
 
hammeredklavier said:
Thanks, but why am I wrong? Accuracy is how closely your measurement correlates with (or represents) reality, i.e., what you're measuring; precision is best thought of as a margin of error. If you have a big margin of error, i.e. poor accuracy, then use fewer decimal places because more would be meaningless, if you have high accuracy, then report more decimal places because they are meaningful.
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I didn't say you were wrong. Radamel did (which makes you presumptively right) I just think the dspguide is a good explanation, possibly more accurate, or was it precise?.
 
An atomic clock that runs a minute fast is not accurate but it's extremely precise.

Joe
 
Joe P said:
An atomic clock that runs a minute fast is not accurate but it's extremely precise.

Joe
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In that, what it thinks is a minute or a second or whatever, could usefully be reported to several decimal places, because of the accuracy with which it measures time.

Getting the time wrong in your example is like a DAC getting the signal flatly wrong. Not going to happen.
 
Hammer,

Because of the *precision* with which it measures time.

Joe
 
Joe P said:
Hammer,

Because of the *precision* with which it measures time.

Joe
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One of us has this wrong! ;)

What's the point of precision without accuracy?

(When I was at school, accuracy was correlation, precision was basically how many decimal places were worth reporting... not many if your accuracy is poor)
 
monya said:
Esoteric make good product. I have their phono stage. However they have moved distributor from Symmetry (very good) to Onkyo - a massive conglomerate. I would have questions re: their after sales support and suggest the OP checks it out thoroughly.
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In addition to their regional distributorship change in the UK, in 2013, TEAC Corporation, which has four main divisions of which Esoteric is one, sold just over 54% ownership to Gibson Brands, Inc. (of Gibson guitar fame).

Just how this change in majority shareholding from the original Japanese management team to a majority shareholding by a US corporation will have affected the operations and strategies of TEAC Corporation is anyone's guess, but - having worked for a US multinational for almost 42 years until retirement, I would guess the macro focus would have moved to shareholder returns based on profitability and the micro focus to quarterly target management.

On the surface, it would seem to make sense for regional distribution of a high-value/low-volume product set like Esoteric's to be "merged" with the distribution of a lower-value/higher-volume product set such as Onkyo's as each can leverage the other (both operate in very similar technological space - just in different price-bands). If this has been handled well, Esoteric's customer base in the UK should benefit from Onkyo's support capacity (due their larger sales volumes).

I guess time will tell... :cool:
 
radamel said:
You really don't get it, do you?
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No. All DACs recreate the original signal accurately; I can't see even the battiest audiophile disagreeing with that. Some DACs might do so to more precision than others, but precision = decimal places = dB = audibility. The disagreements, if you like, between one DAC and another, will be many decimal places down, many dB down from full scale, thus very quiet, and therefore hard to hear.
 
venton said:
I am in no position to do a null test on say 320 vs flac. But if it was done, there would be differences.
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When 320aac or 320mp3 trips up, the difference from the original wav becomes very large. The clever part of a lossy encoder is deciding what to discard, rarely the encoder software gets this totally wrong. Harpsichord and castanet recordings were notorious for finding these corner cases
 
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