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$300 too much for a 40cm digital interconnect?

I think you are all being very unfair to the OP - it seems to me that the purpose of this thread is not to promote expensive foo cables (as such), but actually to create a 'lively' thread in which the OP can raise the forum profile of his business....job done :).

I thought all the 'frothy' stuff at the beginning was fun - it's got a bit dull now :(.

The idea of a $300 SATA cable seemed like a good Alka Seltzer to throw into the forum. Nowhere near enough lively discussion of improving digital transports here. It's much too interesting to leave undiscussed in favour of microscopically unimportant turntable modifications (with respect to my colleagues).
 
I am nervous now. My computer in 2002(AMD athlon with 2 gigs of ram) was surely under-speccd for the thousands of Gigs of audio that were recorded through it. surely there are all sorts of timing errors and stuff. I wonder why then when I mirror a copy of that file through 4 different machines(and a radar machine, an edirol r4, and maudio microtracker and a nagra ares) and then do a null test, they are identical?? I also wonder why these timing errors and whatnot did manifest themselves more profoundly?? I did use the cables that came with the motherboard! the PSU was a freebie included with the purchase too!! WTF was i thinking?


Audio is such a tiny, TINY load on resources that overspeccing computers for audio playback is terribly silly. item you create an answer for a problem that does not exist.

but audiophiles, especially older not computer savvy ones, surely slurp it down like so much ambrosia.

Our customer base for the computer mods and the prebuilt systems is the exact opposite of those you've posited: it tends to be the most experienced system builders and audio-literate types that get into computer transports properly.

'Older, not computer savvy' audiophiles invariably prefer CDs, SBTs or something like the Olive: they run a mile from something with a naked OS: not what they want at all.

The main resistance we encounter is on forums from people who haven't heard them, and who keep missing the point by referring to a computer's ability to do sums fast. It's alarming.
 
Our customer base for the computer mods and the prebuilt systems is the exact opposite of those you've posited: it tends to be those with a rampant case of audiophilia nervosa.

'Older, not computer savvy' audiophiles invariably prefer CDs, SBTs or something like the Olive: they run a mile from something with a naked OS: because they aren't stupid, they see no point spending more money on something built by a 'so called' specialist because it's going to make no difference.

The main resistance we encounter is on forums from people who haven't heard them, they seem to think that because some of the world best musicians use bog standard Macbooks and PCs to compose, make and playback music they're good enough.

Corrected your post for you.;)
 
I have provided my Postman with a new letter bag that he is to use whenever he has to deliver records to my house . My hope is that this will improve the sound quality of the music upon playback even though it has no effect on the actual signal encoded on the vinyl itself.

I will shortly be making them available at £300.
 
No, what matters is that your postman delivers your records in alphabetical order regardless of whether or not you play them back that way.

And don't forget to close-down the rest of his round while appointed to that task.
 
Strong, empirical-sounding statement - but hard to prove. You seem to be short-cutting to the conclusion of an research program you're not participating in.
What research programme are you talking about?

My statement is trivially true and known to be so by anyone who understands computers and digital audio. You could disprove the statement by posting a link to a peer-reviewed DBT that that shows audible differences in SATA cables - but that's never ever, ever going to happen, is it?

Cables for USB, SPDIF, ethernet, SATA: either all differ - or none do.
The 'only noughts and ones' riposte entirely fails to grasp the issues involved. Let's not be hasty is all.
What you say here shows a fundamental ignorance on your part of the difference between synchronous and asynchronous data transfer.

As I said, and you ignored, the best place for your music storage is on a bog standard PC or NAS physically remote from your music client on an ethernet network sending asynchronous packet based data under TCP or UDP.
 
1. Acoustically silent is better.
Irrelevant, I can turn off all my fans from a front panel and it still runs at temps below 50C.

The idea that DACs and amplifiers are so easily isolated or immune from such issues was with CDs, and especially is with PCs, a myth. It can be done, but it's hard to do, and involves additional, expensive and undesirable complexity in the design of the DAC. As John Westlake of Audiolab recently said on this forum, he's not heard a DAC that's truly transport-indifferent.
Citation needed. Wasn't his post about SPDIF? As far as I know, "asynchronous USB" is clocked AND buffered by the DAC - it can (thanks to USB) prevent the computer from sending additional data until the buffer is normalized (filled up if below 50%, emptied a bit if above). The playback itself is then controlled by the DAC.
Complete galvanic isolation (ie. using an optocoupler with additional circuit, powered by AC source used for the DAC itself) is therefore possible at rather cheap prices, it even fits the latencies guaranteed by the USB protocol.

Interference caused by the computer doesn't matter in that case at all, no practical point in shielding components inside the computer case.

The goal is simply to make stuff better: it's crazy to deliberately introduce a contaminant to a system on the premise that you may be able to partially neutralise it downstream. Just don't introduce the contaminant. How can that be wrong?
I'm all for making stuff "better", whatever that might be. Shielding stuff to prevent RFI is generally a good thing and, as I said, a computer that is designed in such way is a nice engineering feat. It makes perfect sense to make those, as it is with ie. expensive Porshe car lines.
The resistance you're encountering here on this forum comes mainly from people, that want to "get from place A to place B" using a car. Basically any car will do the same job and for us - simple folk - using a Porshe just seems way too pointless.

Grounding the computer case (as done by the PSU) and shielding transports that lead to external DACs seems to be the easiest solution to get the same target effect as carefuly shielding everything. Though shielding everything is of course "better" in terms of electromagnetic radiation.


Cables for USB, SPDIF, ethernet, SATA: either all differ - or none do.
That's an invalid statement if "differ" is defined as "differ in final sound quality".


The main resistance we encounter is on forums from people who haven't heard them, and who keep missing the point by referring to a computer's ability to do sums fast. It's alarming.
It's not alarming at all. People here (especially the analytic kind) just want a car that performs best at a given price point. Not that your cars are vastly overpriced, but people here seem to want cars that simply do the job, without being built as best as possible.


What you say here shows a fundamental ignorance on your part of the difference between synchronous and asynchronous data transfer.

As I said, and you ignored, the best place for your music storage is on a bog standard PC or NAS physically remote from your music client on an ethernet network sending asynchronous packet based data under TCP or UDP.
As a computer engineer, I can say that your statements are not entirely true as well.

TCP is a synchronous protocol (although current implementations tend to allow a bit of desynchronization during high latencies, for the sake of throughput) - it requires the other side to acknowledge each packet, so that no data is lost. This adds latency (needed retransmition) on unreliable links, however you're safe on Ethernet as long as your player uses a (small) buffer for playback.
UDP is asynchronous, damaged packets are simply dropped, without notifying the sender. The drop also happens when the link is saturated and the sending device has a faster hardware - the receiving end just doesn't have enough processing power. In general, UDP is better for audio/video streams on unreliable media as a missing stream piece is usually better (especially for video) than the latency added by TCP.

UDPlite was designed to amplify this effect. While UDP still uses checksums to at least differentiate between "correct" and "damaged" data within a packet, UDPlite doesn't use this checksum at all - it's built on the idea that damaged content it still better than no content, especially when the content is a digital representation of an analog signal, like an audio/video stream.

For the most part, using just TCP over LAN is enough. Using an NAS box has no practical latency/shielding advantage over stashing the HDD(s) into the computer directly, though it makes sense for pretty-much-diskless computers like SBT.
 
What research programme are you talking about?

My statement is trivially true and known to be so by anyone who understands computers and digital audio. You could disprove the statement by posting a link to a peer-reviewed DBT that that shows audible differences in SATA cables - but that's never ever, ever going to happen, is it?

Could someone post some links or references to peer-reviewed DBT or other experimental studies looking at differences in hi-fi audio perception, please? Am interested to read up.
 
I did a thesis on perception at uni; about the temporal states of mind, how we wish whims true and create from the choices we make. Nothings different in this hobby as far as I can see.
 
Kinda i suppose :), was to find out how and why 'we' perceive and conceptualise. Shall we say it was self explorative, without the glove!
 
I know they're expensive but I keep hearing great things about these Green Label cables - have any PFM members got them, tried them, or would like to try them and let me know what they think of them?

http://ppastudio.blogspot.co.uk/

They do a cheaper version, too:
PICT6888.JPG

What an absolute waste of money.

Spend the £300 on someone you love instead! At least there will be a point to it :)
 
100 times less, actually. This isn't a serious thread, though, it's just item trying to push his wares and the wacky ideas behind them.
 
Item posted this because it's a cheap way of either:

A) Finding out whether there's a market, in which case he'll stock them, or
B) He already flogs them and it's cheap advertising.

I very much suspect the latter.

I work in public relations and this is obviously a cheap marketing ploy.

Ironically it is receiving a lot of cynical and comedic berating though!
 


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