3
35451
Guest
Cup and saucer please.
$170 Billion and Counting: The Cost of Brexit for the U.K.
- Thread starter tuga
- Start date
Cup and saucer please.
davidsrsb
pfm Member
BJ has a mandate for everyone having their cake and eating it.
As this is impossible, reality will bite soon.
From the way he is splashing money around, I presume he is planning to renege on the EU payments. This fits with Javids comments, which can be read to include the effects of EU retaliation
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Johnson has set the stage for a crash out. It’s utter Brinkmanship to legislate an extended transition period out of existence to see if the EU will drop everything and deliver a trade deal to his liking in eleven months. As with is predecessor- the gun will be pointing at his own head and Brussels will leave the decision with him about pulling the trigger. He is after all a responsible adult and not suffering from any mental illness.
stephen bennett
Mr Enigma
3
35451
Guest
Elaborate. Makes no sense.
? Consider Anyone who scorns estimates might also be a remainer getting on and trying to make the most of the times. Possible?
Or is your view world black and white?
If so we enter the circular arguments of lies and fear - and opinions that suit you, all dressed up as fact. Above article could easily be construed as that.
awkwardbydesign
Officially Awesome
I voted to leave for one main reason. This - "Traditionally, Strasbourg made sense symbolically, but as the EU has grown, the Franco-German significance may be lost on the newer member states."
The Franco-German significance was NOT lost on me. Besides, as the EU member states lurch further and further right, we would be trapped in that. And on those terms, no we are not heading far right.
The Franco-German significance was NOT lost on me. Besides, as the EU member states lurch further and further right, we would be trapped in that. And on those terms, no we are not heading far right.
tuga
Legal Alien
ERG. Sorry, I meant QED.
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
Dogma x ideology = the way the EU works.
The problem with estimates like this is that they assume confidence in the UK will remain roughly as it has been while inside the EU and declaring an intention to probably leave. When we lose the support of the EU and the UK's structural weakness (we cannot reasonably call it strength!) is put to the test it is not unreasonable to assume that confidence will change. A possibility exists that loss of confidence will snowball and we will be in real trouble. It is more likely that it will drop further but not collapse and our decline will accelerate in a controlled manner. About the only thing we can be fairly confident of is that confidence in the UK will not improve due to a distinct lack of benefits for leaving to counter the costs.
Having said that brexit is not the primary reason for decline for the UK's 99% and so one needs to be careful not to attribute all decline to brexit.
stephen bennett
Mr Enigma
Yet flexible enough to offer May and Johnson the bespoke deal they wanted.
Stephen
Brexit has enabled a right wing Cabinet. Fortunately Boris has no convictions so that may soften the blows.
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
Which bespoke deal(s)?
I’d like to say I’m surprised at the naivety of believing that the exit process would be easy or cheap, but as these people voted for it, then I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.
Either way, my thanks for voting for something that’s apparently already cost £130billion.
Now, please cough up for the taxpayers money that you spent on my behalf.
Either way, my thanks for voting for something that’s apparently already cost £130billion.
Now, please cough up for the taxpayers money that you spent on my behalf.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
The initial claims made by the anti-EU brigade were too good to be true ( we hold alll the cards, it’ll be the easiest negotiation in history) but that’s usually at the heart of so many successful confidence tricks- people want to believe it. Much later on of course when the scales began to drop from people’s eyes, the hucksters changed their tune, “no one said Brexit was going to be easy”, “ the economic benefits will come in fifty years”, “it was never about money”.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
The one the Tories we’re going to secure for Britain because “we hold all the cards and it’ll be the easiest negotiation in history” and now they can’t even bong Big Ben because it’s out of order. The symbolism is perfect.
Roger Adams
pfm Member
Could you argue that the same rigidity and focus lies behind the design of most computer software?
The numerous dea!s that were offered within rules to which we agreed, sorry, made.
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
Leaving aside the actual wording of A50, of which there are very few and which merely state that a country may leave the EU upon agreeing terms of that withdrawal, who is 'we'?
I am certainly not represented by 'we'. We (that is all of us) were assured that acceptance of the Lisbon Treaty (aka EU Constitution) would be subject to a referendum. A trail plebiscite on some 100,000 people exposed a 92% rejection in this country (the original constitution had already been rejected by the electorates of France and The Netherlands, and the Lisbon rewriting of that same document by Irish voters), which is to say that, had we been given the promised referendum on Lisbon, only around 8% of the voting population of this country would have agreed to it (with an appropriate margin for error), that 8% probably representing a similar proportion to this day, and being somewhat overrepresented on the political pages of pfm. In the event, PM Gordon Brown refused to put his name to the document 'midst the self-satisfied pomp, ceremony and overt ode to joyism of the signing event at the beautiful Jerónimos Monastery in Bélem, agreeing only to scrawl his reluctant monicker on it in a broom cupboard and in the absence of cameras later that afternoon. Why? Undoubtedly because he knew that the document represented another massive and decisive transfer of sovereignty to the notably unrepresentative institutions of the EU, and a final stone in its underhanded bid to become a supranational entity, an empire in all but name.
The 'deals', numerous or otherwise, that were 'offered' by the EU within May's disastrous tenure were contingent upon absolutely no movement whatsoever from the the EU's ideological and dogma-based red lines, upon the EU's scheduling which placed the the launching of A50, the impossible and IED-ridden terms of the withdrawal, the agreement on a probably spurious sum of €39bn (upon which the delay, itself consequent of the EU's immutable red lines, has usefully increased by virtue of continued payins), the carefully pre-planned booby-trap of the NI border, and procrastination over EU/UK citizen's rights, ahead of any discussions, formal or informal, on the post exit relationships.
We should never have signed the Lisbon Treaty (as Brown in his broom cupboard well knew), and we should never have signed the Maastricht Treaty before it (as the phantom-moustached and petulant Major well knew) without plebiscites. Neither of those treaties, or the wording therein, represents me, or, in terms of a certainly overwhelming majority of people in this country, 'we'.
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
I'm entirely unconvined that computer software should provide a comparitor for the EU, though sadly it probably does, technical and technocracy having obviously the same root.
We as in the UK people, represented by our democratically elected government, wbich as you never cease of telling us in your 10,000 word missives are accountable to us and can be disnissed if they do not do our bidding. Well, what you have here is democracy in action. What you wanted doesn't matter a fig. I didn't want any of this ruinous shitshow, but I've got it. Itsawillofa people innit?