Cav
pfm Member
I remember it as Jos the Boss. Stirring the pot?
The 2024 Formula One Season
- Thread starter cutting42
- Start date
I can only see the Red Bull saga having one of two outcomes now.
1) Christian Horner is forced out of his role and the team altogether. Now if Horner is really not guilty of anything this would be monumentally unfair and very silly on RB's part as like him or not he has led the team to a huge amount of success.
2) Horner remains as team principal and the Verstappens choose to ply their trade elsewhere. While this seems unlikely it is not impossible and Wolff has already been seen talking to the Verstappens although he insists this was no more than a social chat, but who knows?
What I now cannot see is a scenario where Max and Horner remain in the team harmoniously unless Max decides to tell his father to back off and let him get on with it. I have read via several sources that Max was asked by F1 to publicly back Horner and apparently refused... not sure how true this is, but if it is... it's not looking good.
1) Christian Horner is forced out of his role and the team altogether. Now if Horner is really not guilty of anything this would be monumentally unfair and very silly on RB's part as like him or not he has led the team to a huge amount of success.
2) Horner remains as team principal and the Verstappens choose to ply their trade elsewhere. While this seems unlikely it is not impossible and Wolff has already been seen talking to the Verstappens although he insists this was no more than a social chat, but who knows?
What I now cannot see is a scenario where Max and Horner remain in the team harmoniously unless Max decides to tell his father to back off and let him get on with it. I have read via several sources that Max was asked by F1 to publicly back Horner and apparently refused... not sure how true this is, but if it is... it's not looking good.
flutteringwow
She called me baby, like an old romantic
CH's text messages to a female subordinate were pretty terrible even after the time she tells him to go and speak to his wife and kids instead and CH telling her to 'delete the chat'.
For someone in his position, it's a clear no no. Why its being suggested 'if' he is innocent is a bit daft as the proof is in the CocoPops pudding, 'internal' investigation side. No they aren't the 'worst', but that's not for me to decide its only for the victim to express how how it made her feel, which was obviously bad enough she needed to raise it and potentially chance her own employment and reputation within the industry.
Red Bull have a low moral standing and always have done, so I expect they will let it slide, I am sure there are some out in the RB camp that would high five CH for it so it's good press for some of their fan base. Further flames maybe fanned and the vultures will circle for position if they see opportunity, but I also have a feeling more will come text messages or revelations will come out in due course depending how much £ and effort RB's risk management team put in to keeping it quiet. We will see if CH is expendable or not based on this.
For someone in his position, it's a clear no no. Why its being suggested 'if' he is innocent is a bit daft as the proof is in the CocoPops pudding, 'internal' investigation side. No they aren't the 'worst', but that's not for me to decide its only for the victim to express how how it made her feel, which was obviously bad enough she needed to raise it and potentially chance her own employment and reputation within the industry.
Red Bull have a low moral standing and always have done, so I expect they will let it slide, I am sure there are some out in the RB camp that would high five CH for it so it's good press for some of their fan base. Further flames maybe fanned and the vultures will circle for position if they see opportunity, but I also have a feeling more will come text messages or revelations will come out in due course depending how much £ and effort RB's risk management team put in to keeping it quiet. We will see if CH is expendable or not based on this.
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
Wolff should be approaching Newey. Max is not daft enough to leave by far the quickest car on the grid. Any of the top drivers in that car wins. I assume that’s behind his old man’s characteristically oafish intervention. Horner is dispensable.
clivem2
pfm Member
I struggle to listen to Jos V given his history of a restraining order regarding his ex-wife and a hot-headed past with accusations of violence.
CH isn’t the most likeable person but I do respect his achievements. It seems like RB may have preferred to read the evidence against CH as morally wrong but not against their rules. What Ford think about this could be a deciding factor.
CH isn’t the most likeable person but I do respect his achievements. It seems like RB may have preferred to read the evidence against CH as morally wrong but not against their rules. What Ford think about this could be a deciding factor.
He may well do, but if you get one you will quite likely get the other... Newey would come with a hefty period of gardening leave though. Personally I think if this does continue to blow up Newey may well decide to retire... he's talked about it several times before.
Anyway this is all speculation as we don't have any conclusive proof that Horner has done anything to warrant being ousted from the team and 'innocent until proven guilty' and all that.
flutteringwow
She called me baby, like an old romantic
Have we not? We certainly have unless you dont feel he has done anything wrong in the text messages.
Id post them here but Tony gets scared about stuff like that, however you can find them quite easily online.
If one think ls his behaviour is appropriate thats their moral standing explained I guess.
I haven't seen the so called text exchanges and other 'evidence', but more importantly I haven't seen any statement as to the validity of them. The very fact you claim them to be solid evidence yet won't post them here tells us all we need to know. Once again you are letting your bias slew your viewpoint.
At the end of the day if Horner has done something to warrant dismissal then fine, he absolutely should be dismissed, but I would rather wait for the complete facts to emerge. As Clive said above the fact that Jos Verstappen is behind the latest verbal attack is cause for concern given his questionable judgement in certain areas of life... I'm being polite there.
flutteringwow
She called me baby, like an old romantic
I suggest viewing them so you are more informed and also the information that comes with them such as data tagging which those that can, have done.
Do you expect there to be a statement saying 'Yes they are mine, I sleazed over a young girl under my leadership'? Don't be daft lad, that approach didn't work out too well for Bill Clinton. But, I would expect there to be a statement stating 'they aren't mine', if they weren't though..
As I said earlier, to me they aren't the worst (so no bias slewing anything as if there was bias I'd be shouting about a public flogging) but thats wholly not for me to decide , that's for the person on the receiving end of it and how they made her feel, then the moral standing of those that make the decision of whether to cut him loose or reprimand him is shown. Imagine the pressure she felt with someone in his position being suggestive like he was and video calling her when she asked for him not to?
I have little concern for the wife beater, but as I mentioned earlier in the thread, the vultures will always circle when there is a weakness or a crack.
flutteringwow
She called me baby, like an old romantic
I'd expect not considering Apple doesn't own Whatsapp.
DuncanF
pfm Member
This is the file drop link as sent to the distribution list last week. Hopefully it is OK to link at it is in the public domain. I'll ping Tony to check though.
File Drop – Google Drive
drive.google.com
Tony Lockhart
Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity
All looks quite lame to me.
flutteringwow
She called me baby, like an old romantic
To us as older men, they may do, but to a younger woman with him being her boss who is in an established powerful position it could and obviously did feel very different. We aren't really the ones to make a judgement call on if suggestively suggesting if she likes her legs stretched is acceptable or not..but it really isn't is it? Imagine if this was say your daughter in this position.
What struck me the most, is that its very evident that he knew what he was doing, he ensured he remained on the 'boundary' of risk with his suggestions, and this for me, is predatory behaviour and probably worse than the actual messages.
Tony Lockhart
Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity
I’m not judging, as such. I was just expecting something meatier.
I agree with the predatory point though. What was coming next? Who else?
Tony L
Administrator
I agree it is now public domain and so widely shared everywhere it is now part of the story of the 2024 F1 season. I don’t think there is an issue sharing a link. pfm is obviously hosting no content, only this link, and if approached legally I will happily remove it. As is stands at this point I just view this as journalism. The story exists. The files exist. It is not for us to deny reality (unless challenged by a lawyer!).
PS I obviously have no way (or even interest) to know if what is shared in this link is what it claims to be. It would be exceptionally easy to fake this stuff. Again I am allowing this outlink to stand as it is clearly part of the discussion about this season regardless whether it turns out to be true or false. IMHO it should be viewed with considerable scepticism. I’d not assume it was real/untampered.