OK. I will start one. However, please feel free to post bad things about the Soviet Union and Russia on it, if you wish. I won't stop you.
I'd be willing to bet a large majority of Ukrainians would be very willing to sign up to that horrible Greek package (EU+NATO), neo-liberal warts and all. That 15 billion from the IMF might come in handy, too.IMF and Ukrainian Authorities Reach Staff Level Agreement on a US$15.6 Billion Extended Fund Facility (EFF) Arrangement
How Ukraine is economically funded and supported after the war will be as important as the military funding and support to fight the invasion.
The IMF aims “to support the Ukrainian authorities [to] anchor policies that sustain fiscal, external, price and financial stability, and support the ongoing gradual economic recovery, while promoting long-term growth in the context of post-war reconstruction and Ukraine’s path to EU accession.”
The objectives are sound, but if those policies require spending cuts, privatisation and deregulation, then Ukraine’s commitment to invest in its own human capital via increased social spending might be compromised.
The EU is generally seen as a good thing, but if the cost of joining the EU is that Ukraine has to sign up to the conditionality of the Eurozone with it’s deficit ceilings and debt to GDP ratios, Ukraine could find its own ability to manage it’s own economy compromised in much the same way as the Greeks.
We should show as much care for the plight of the Ukrainian people after this war, as we do during it.
That’s the essential problem of taking the job of a dictator’s body double.
They’ll take care of your family.Wonder if the job comes with life insurance.
It isn’t a Greek package, it’s the IMF. The Ukrainians might have no choice but the accept the conditionality attached to the loans, but if, and it is an if at this stage though the press release gives clues, the conditionality is the usual commitment t to privatisation, deregulation and spending cuts, the Ukrainian commitment to improving social spending will be compromised.I'd be willing to bet a large majority of Ukrainians would be very willing to sign up to that horrible Greek package (EU+NATO), neo-liberal warts and all. That 15 billion from the IMF might come in handy, too.
I'd also wager a bet that the Ukranians would take neoliberalism over Putinism - who wouldn't? - but NL is a dying art: it's slowly being unwound as the State and business grow closer together. The question is...what will replace it? (a topic for another thread). As for Greece, it currently tops the EU's Q4 economic growth table. I'm sure Ukraine would welcome some of the same once it gets rid of Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin.
No, I was talking about the Greek package. I was specifically responding to the part in your message #4004 where you said "Ukraine would find its own ability to manage it’s own economy compromised in much the same way as the Greeks". We've been around these arguments many times before: you are most probably referring to the way the EU constrains the ability of member states to run large deficits because the "control" of the currency has been taken away from them by the euro/ECB and because the EU is at heart a neo-liberal project. Separately, you have been at least somewhat sympathetic to the view that NATO by its actions may bear some responsibility (exact percentage to be determined) in certain events that led Russia to invade Ukraine.It isn’t a Greek package, it’s the IMF. The Ukrainians might have no choice but the accept the conditionality attached to the loans, but if, and it is an if at this stage though the press release gives clues, the conditionality is the usual commitment t to privatisation, deregulation and spending cuts, the Ukrainian commitment to improving social spending will be compromised.
Of course the 15 billion will come in handy, but it isn’t a gift, it will come with conditions, conditions the Ukrainians will just have to accept.
See previous post: your criticism of the EU in post 4004 is most definitely based on your frequently expressed view that the EU's ideology is essentially neo-liberal. No idea why you say I brought it up. I haven't made that one up, as demonstrated in your next sentence:First of all it should be noted that it is you and PSB who have brought up neoliberalism, there having been several complaints about it being brought up in this thread previously.
Don't you think that's maybe just a tad simplistic? Talk about dealing in black and white...If the Ukraine adopts the Euro it will have no choice but to adopt neoliberalism, and while neoliberalism might be better than Putinism, that is a very low bar indeed. If you want to improve public services, social justice, address issues of wealth inequality, as Ukraine has said it does, then neoliberalism is an ideology that is against public spending, social provision and for wealth disparities.
(...)
Do we really want to help the Ukrainian People, or do we just want to help military, and then walk away thinking “job done”?
Hmmm, ISTM those birds are everywhere, all the time. There will also be some fairy Godmothers, some well-meaning people and organizations that will want to help in a disinterested way.The Peace will have as many hawks, vultures and opportunists circling around Ukraine as the War
I do realise that military spending is the most useless type of spending, expensive toys that require a lot of maintenance and which serve no useful purpose other than to destroy other people's expensive toys.
I personally would never propose a war of any kind. The people who start wars are never the ones that get hurt by them. My point is that we need to be ready for such eventualities. It saddens me deeply that this should be the case, but in a world of Putins and Xis, determined to recover by force what they believe to be theirs as of right, we need to have something with which to deter them.I won’t argue either side but if the British armed forces were up to it, are you proposing a conventional war against Russia? Do you think that if they had the resources Putin would not have invaded? IMO the UK needs a defense policy not an attack policy, we can’t afford it.
Thanks Vitaly. Sadly "just" another example of Russian reckless use of missiles to hit, well, just about anything in Ukraine it seems. While they can target and hit power station transformers when they want, it seems they really don't care a lot of the time. Horrific.Another missile strike on Zaporizhzhia this morning - I've been to that shopping centre across the road many times, nothing military about that part of town at all:
https://twitter.com/GoncharenkoUa/status/1638495589888401408
https://twitter.com/sternenko/status/1638492002303062017
If anyone would like to help, I'm running a fundraiser in aid of Zaporizhzhia, and many thanks for your kind and generous donations so far:
https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/zaporizhzhia3