advertisement


Ukraine V

ks.234 said:
But I haven’t said that “NATO by its actions may bear some responsibility (exact percentage to be determined) in certain events that led Russia to invade Ukraine.”
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure I can make a case you did.
 
NeilR said:
Russia is pulling T55 tanks out of storage to go to Ukraine

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davida...ld-t-55-tanks-out-of-storage/?sh=a11d8d659397

and still people are terrified of Russian military might!
Click to expand...

It's their nuclear missiles. Added to the not infrequent threats to use them.

People wouldn't worry so much without that.

Even if they don't all work, they have so many of them.

anubisgrau said:
Attacking civil targets is a big part of the US military doctrine.

They did the same in '99 campaign in Yugoslavia, targeting almost all the power stations and grid in the country...

The same like you wish to Putin and his allies...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/balkans/stories/belgrade052599.htm

Let alone targeting the civil passenger train




Thanks god, the highest officials of UK and US, military commanders and pilots - they were all indicted at the Hague Tribunal for war crimes against civilians!
Click to expand...

You should look out for my new thread on the many crimes of the US. Is on my list of things to do. Coming soon...
 
DonQuixote99 said:
This post does not contain the words “NATO by its actions may bear some responsibility (exact percentage to be determined) in certain events that led Russia to invade Ukraine.” I think that may be the name of the tune, though....
https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/ukraine-ii.265387/page-17#post-4622424
Click to expand...
OK, so here we go with the cyclical argument yet again. That post does not blame NATO for anything or excuse Putin for anything. But we’ve been around this circle before. Noting that NATO has expanded eastward and noting that Gorbachev was promised that NATO would not expand “one inch eastward” are both observations of a fact that some people on here, at the time, were denying, nothing else. It did not apportion blame, it was a record of observable facts
 
Last edited:
To keep things simple:

An explanation is not the same as a justification (or excuse).

For example, we treat child abusers as responsible for their actions and hold them to account, even though there are often social and psychological explanations for their behaviour (e.g. being abused as a child themselves).

The explanation does not excuse the behaviour. At most, it modulates the way in which such individuals might be judged (and punished).
 
It is very doubtful if Americans can name anyone a war criminal.

It is not about Putin. Mind that US military and officials can not be trialled for war crimes at ICC.

Full stop.
 
anubisgrau said:
It is very doubtful if Americans can name anyone a war criminal.

It is not about Putin. Mind that US military and officials can not be trialled for war crimes at ICC.

Full stop.
Click to expand...
That's an incorrect statement. ICC forming statute has not been accepted by many countries, including Russia, China and US.

However, ability of the ICC to indict any person and to try them haven't been tested very much, so we don't really know.

We shall see how it plays out. A long time ago it seemed inconceivable that Milosevic would be on trial. I remember seeing a documentary about the siege of Sarajevo, where where he was in top form, as things were really going his way...
 
Last edited:
notaclue said:
It's their nuclear missiles. Added to the not infrequent threats to use them.

People wouldn't worry so much without that.

Even if they don't all work, they have so many of them.



You should look out for my new thread on the many crimes of the US. Is on my list of things to do. Coming soon...
Click to expand...
You promised to start that thread, hopefully it will be a priority!
 
ks.234 said:
OK, so here we go with the cyclical argument yet again. That post does not blame NATO for anything or excuse Putin for anything. But we’ve been around this circle before. Noting that NATO has expanded eastward and noting that Gorbachev was promised that NATO would not expand “one inch eastward” are both observations of a fact that some people on here, at the time, were denying, nothing else.
Click to expand...

You may as well have said “look no further than NATO…”
 
PsB said:
Hmmm, scraping sound of goal posts on the move again.
Click to expand...
Nonsense. After all the demands from a few on here to restrict what is said on this thread, you personally have tried to resurrect an old argument about the EU, an old argument about neoliberalism, then an old argument about NATO and now talk about moving goal posts.

You are the one moving things around for your own personal reasons.

Like I say, if you want to resurrect old arguments from other threads and from a long time ago, then go ahead.

You talk about moving goal posts, but bearing in mind that your starting point was a response to my post about the IMF loan in which I said that we should maintain our concern for the Ukrainian people after the war as we have done during it, something fairly uncontroversial I’d have thought, you now seem to be wanting to play a different game on a very different pitch
 
Plink said:
You may as well have said “look no further than NATO…”
Click to expand...
More cyclical nonsense.

If I had said that, all that time ago, then I might’ve been blaming NATO. But I didn’t because I wasn’t.

What I did say was clear. To try to re write what I said to suit your own agenda is dishonest
 
"Counter-offensive starts soon, says Ukrainian ground forces commander

Ukraine’s top ground forces commander, Col Gen Oleksandr Syrskyi, said his forces would soon begin a counter-offensive after withstanding Russia’s brutal winter campaign.

He said Russia’s Wagner mercenaries, who have been at the frontline of Moscow’s assault on eastern and southern Ukraine, 'are losing considerable strength and are running out of steam'.

'Very soon, we will take advantage of this opportunity, as we did in the past near Kyiv, Kharkiv, Balakliia and Kupiansk,” he said, listing Ukrainian counteroffensives last year that recaptured swathes of land.' (Guardian).

Quite the turnaround.
 
DimitryZ said:
That's an incorrect statement. ICC forming statute has not been accepted by many countries, including Russia, China and US.

However, ability of the ICC to indict any person and to try them haven't been tested very much, so we don't really know.

We shall see how it plays out. A long time ago it seemed inconceivable that Milosevic would be on trial. I remember seeing a documentary about the siege of Sarajevo, where where he was in top form, as things were really going his way...
Click to expand...

Another plenty of uneducated gibberish, Milošević was indicted for Kosovo '99 campaign. A plenty of other were indicted for Sarajevo and there is no reason why he wouldn't be there, if responsible.
 
DimitryZ said:
That's an incorrect statement. ICC forming statute has not been accepted by many countries, including Russia, China and US.

However, ability of the ICC to indict any person and to try them haven't been tested very much, so we don't really know.

We shall see how it plays out.
Click to expand...

Well there will be not much to see.

I have no words to describe the US government wish for anyone (who is not American) to be trialled while at the same time having this in power:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members'_Protection_Act

American military interventionism has been always based on plentiful of war crimes, especially against civilians. Truly the last on earth to condemn whoever else's crimes and call for an ICC trial.
 
NeilR said:
Russia is pulling T55 tanks out of storage to go to Ukraine

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davida...ld-t-55-tanks-out-of-storage/?sh=a11d8d659397

and still people are terrified of Russian military might!
Click to expand...

Tanks are a sort of proxy for how the war is going. The Ukrainians say they have destroyed over 3500 Russian tanks, and Russia has up to 10,000 tanks (hard to get a precise figure). Obviously, quite a few of those are old but a tank is still a tank. It must unnerve Russia's military that it won't be long before Ukraine reaches the 5K mark.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top