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New Naim streamer preamp

Not that much air

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Paul Hindle said:
I think the normal approach is to cover R&D overheads across all products. Of course I might be wrong.
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It depends on the products and how they fit together in a company’s range as well as the size of the company etc. A company the size of Naim would more than likely amortise their R&D costs across a group of products like this as they were developed and introduced at the same time and work together. This effectively means that in all likelihood Naim are making lots of money on the power supply but less on the streamer/pre, but it’s swings and roundabouts in financial terms really as they will likely sell them together most of the time. Where it does work for them is if they sell the PSU to power other products so I can sort of see why they’ve done it.
 
PerF said:
My experience too
Dedicated HP amps win every time.

Steve wrote in the Naim thread, they revised 222 headphone section markedly compared to earlier products.
Possible to match a wider selection of headphones which is not that easy to amplify.
Whether this is pure marketing comment or not we will see, guess he should be in the know.

EDIT
just read this on the white forum,:eek: written by a brandnew owner:
"I have to say that the headphone component in the NSC222 is very impressive and certainly on a par with my old 252/Headline/Hicap set up."
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Looked this up, it seems a comparison to an unserviced system the poster had years back??
And most recent posts already talk about a Statement like sound - omg:)
 
The pricing is a bit arbitrary. A poweramp, streaming preamp and power supply each the same cost? The poweramp has basically the same toroid and nearly the same capacitor bank as the power supply, plus all the amplification circuitry. I'm not sure whether the amp/streaming preamp are priced right and the power supply is overpriced, or amp/streaming preamp are underpriced and they're hoping to make money back on the power supplies.

It's the same sort of cost model ideal that's coming up more and more. It's been happening for a while with inkjet printers. The printers are underpriced, but the genuine cartridges are overpriced and bloody expensive.

Personally, I'd rather they charge it what it really costs. I've always thought that all their power supplies were double the price of what they should be.

Or... maybe Naim take the view that xx power supply gives yy% upgrade of the sound quality, so that is why they charge that amount of money. Not sure I like that sort of costing logic, but anyway.
 
Dingbat said:
the power supply is overpriced, or amp/streaming preamp are underpriced and they're hoping to make money back on the power supplies.
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Massive overpriced PSU looking at the BOM manufacture cost.
Not sure if cost level is that far from a XPS ?
Smart move as some older PSU is no longer functionally with the new kit, or you have to add a £259 cable.

Its priced into a marketing section range and thats a very profit clever purpose.
If they don't come up with a Hicap DR successor, their new PSU offerings is more than three times the HCDR price.
 
Today I went to Robert Ritchie’s in Montrose to hear the new kit.

At home I have a 272 with TP XPS into 300 Dr with Sonus Faber Sonetto V speakers.

Test tracks via Tidal - Kate and Anna McGarrigle - Kiss and Say Goodbye (quirky little song with harmonies which can sound a bit shrill)
Robert Plant and Alison Krauss- Please read the letter - lots of subtle instrumental work and again a recording that can be a touch harsh.
Aimee Mann - Lookin’ for Nothing - piano bass and drums song with string arrangement

1. Listened to 222 into new 250 into Sonus Faber Sonetto III

All the tracks sounded good - I think better than my home set up but there was some shrillness on vocals on the first 2 tracks.

2. Then 222 plus the 300 power supply into new 250.

Wow - what a difference ! - vocals smoother and clearer, bass better, more musical.

Also threw in Led Zeppelin’s What is and What Should Never Be to hear some beefier rock. Sounded great.

3. Finally at my request as a comparator for a one box solution - Linn DSM Selekt with stereo Organik DAC and new (internal) power supply - again into 250.

This Linn is a superb piece of kit - I’d previously heard this with the older power supply and the Katalyst DAC but this is much improved. Very musical, sound staging is good, no shrillness.

Robbie is kindly letting me home demo a Linn at this spec - so we’ll see!

I think if one hears the 222 first on its own and then with the power supply it’s very difficult to consider the single box option- so at new prices the Naim is considerably more expensive than the Linn - even with the Organik dac - which is over £3k as an upgrade. There’s an attraction to reducing box numbers with no need for the TP XPS or the phono stage which I currently use for my LP12.

I’m very grateful that Robbie is so generous to allow extensive home demo! Won’t be able to connect it up until after the weekend…
 
EPear said:
a Statement like sound
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In addition below is a view from another listener today:

"it has many elements of the Statement sound, but much less detail and sophistication than a 252. Not surprising really as Steve Sells designed Statement and the old pre/power are a legacy of JV and Roy George. A fresh piece of paper and Steve and the team are using Statement carry over.
That being said i did listen to a NDX2/xpsdr/252/supercap with the old 250 and old 300 vs the 222/new psu and new 250……i much preferred the old system……more warmth, detail and natural decay of notes………but it is a £30 k system……even more with a nap300dr…….which seemed to make the 252 really sing.
In summary the new kit takes the Naim sound forward with a sharper clarity"
 
PerF said:
In addition below is a view from another listener today:

"it has many elements of the Statement sound, but much less detail and sophistication than a 252. Not surprising really as Steve Sells designed Statement and the old pre/power are a legacy of JV and Roy George. A fresh piece of paper and Steve and the team are using Statement carry over.
That being said i did listen to a NDX2/xpsdr/252/supercap with the old 250 and old 300 vs the 222/new psu and new 250……i much preferred the old system……more warmth, detail and natural decay of notes………but it is a £30 k system……even more with a nap300dr…….which seemed to make the 252 really sing.
In summary the new kit takes the Naim sound forward with a sharper clarity"
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It could change once the 222/330/250 has burnt in. I think we have to accept that for a month or so we will have to wait for final conclusions as to where the new stuff is in relation to the older kit. I think Naim has been very clever in releasing the streamer preamp first because a lot of people buying them will be upgrading from a uniti or 272 and it is where the most vocal demands for a new product have been made. And once the 300 series pre amps etc are released dealers will have a well-burnt in 300/250 to demonstrate the new preamp(s) and streamer in addition to any 300 series power amp.
 
Hungry Halibut said:
In fact, the 272’s volume control was also derived from Statement. ‘Derived’ can mean all sorts of course, from almost identical to vaguely similar. The 222 is effectively a 272 with the current streaming platform, a phono stage and balanced outputs. There’s nothing particularly revolutionary about it. Linn techs are probably not the most reliable source of information on Naim!
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The 272 used the exact same volume control as the Superuniti (and a great deal of other components, too). It’s a very well implemented control, but as the SU predates Statement by a few years, so I think Naim marketing were getting a bit carried away with their claims.
 
Nero said:
All this talk of 'levels' makes me wonder what would happen if they developed something halfway down the range as part of the R&D effort, and found it blew everything else out of the water. Would they simply rename it and increase the price? What would you do? Is it possible to design something to a 'level'?
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Porsche Cayman springs to mind here.
 
PerF said:
In addition below is a view from another listener today:

"it has many elements of the Statement sound, but much less detail and sophistication than a 252. Not surprising really as Steve Sells designed Statement and the old pre/power are a legacy of JV and Roy George. A fresh piece of paper and Steve and the team are using Statement carry over.
That being said i did listen to a NDX2/xpsdr/252/supercap with the old 250 and old 300 vs the 222/new psu and new 250……i much preferred the old system……more warmth, detail and natural decay of notes………but it is a £30 k system……even more with a nap300dr…….which seemed to make the 252 really sing.
In summary the new kit takes the Naim sound forward with a sharper clarity"
Click to expand...

My interpretation of "forward with a sharper quality": his ears were bleeding.
Which probably means that the "new Naim sound" is so ear-piercingly bright, shrill and metallic that it will only work with maybe 3 brands of speakers and CERTAINLY NOT Focal. Somebody is simply confirming that they've lost the plot. Big time.
 
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