advertisement


Audiophile Network Switches for Streaming ... really ?

Zombie said:
It's divine intervention. Must be faith. Maybe a space telescope can register the unicorn fart particles that only the believers can hear.
Click to expand...

Believers. Now there’s a thing.
It never ceases to amaze me how pseudo-religious these threads can get. Bizarrely, it’s the graph-wielding aetheists (actual aethists, more often than not, because Graphs is the only true one in whom we must believe) who seem to be leading the shouts of “burn them, burn them”. How quaint. I’m a non-graph-wielding one by the way.

Experience trumps belief. Actual listening with graph or actual listening without graph, don’t care, but actual listening. I think you may have taken the risk, and of course your reward shall be in hifi heaven. The others shall verily be struck deaf forsooth. Hang on, I have someone claiming to be “God” on the other line….

… sorry about that. Seems like he was a bit quick off the mark.

Peace be upon you, brother. :)
 
tuga said:
I used to think that might be the case, but now I am more inclined to think that stubborn objectivists are either bad listeners or try hard not to hear anything that they believe might not be audible...or both.
Subjectivists reject blind testing, objectivists refuse to listen.
The world is in balance.
Click to expand...
That’s not bad.
That’s not bad at all for someone for whom English is a second language! Respect
 
miktec said:
I never tire of posting this graph from Archimago on this thread ... and still they keep coming for more :D

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2016/11/measurements-on-value-for-ethernet.html#more

... tiny noise bump in the inaudible range with ethernet in place ....

Noise%2BCompare%2B-%2BNo%2BEthernet%2B-%2B60Hz%2Bcircled.png


Measured in the ANALOGUE domain !!!

Archimago himself:
"Remember furthermore that I'm looking at the analogue output from an audio daughterboard inside the machine itself within close range of the ethernet chipset! Just how much effect does anyone think there would be if I had an external USB DAC connected to the Raspberry Pi? (Rhetorical question...)"

(emphasis added for the hard of hearing .....)
Click to expand...

“Windows Server 2012 R2 computer --> 25' Cat6 cable --> NETGEAR Nighthawk AC1900 router --> ~100' Cat5e cable up a floor --> D-Link DGS-1008G 8-port gigabit switch (also connected is VOIP adaptor for cordness phone & FAX, i7 desktop computer) --> 6' Cat5e --> Raspberry Pi 3/HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro”

So the guy has 8m of cable from PC to router (which we can probably ignore) and 33m of cable from router to switch. 33 metres! That could pick up a lot of RFI/EMI. But the D-Link switch will kill much of this… as he uses a switch only 2m from his streamer. Cool. As recommended by experts and all that.

That article is an argument for wifi vs wired, not an argument for switch vs no-switch. It would be very interesting to see the same test if he had 33m of cable running direct from router to streamer vs wifi or vs switchless.
Still, it has a graph which is all some people need to prove an unrelated point.
 
Fourlegs said:
Don't get too excited about that graph.

Each of us on the other side of the fence to you might have different versions of what we think is happening but from my point of view that graph is not at all relevant to the mechanism I that I think is the cause of the audible differences. My version of possible events is that high frequency noise from the ethernet, possibly even in GHz territory, is causing IM distortion in the analogue stage of the DAC. That graph stops at about 100KHz as far as I can see but the noise is rising steeply from about 50 KHz onwards so who knows what level it reaches further up the frequency scale. I suggest looking up to say 5GHz. RF noise becomes harder to stop because of the ways that it can jump around filters etc put in its path.

Now I do have a spectrum analyzer which I think tops out at about 3GHz but I think a better test than looking for the noise would be to look at the analogue output from the DAC (as others have suggested) and to look for IM distortion with and without the ethernet connected. However this is likely to require some sensitive kit from Audio Precision or the like because even very small levels of IMD can be audible and I do not have access to such measuring devices.

So no, I do not think that graph is as important as you think it is.
Click to expand...
So now you are saying your ears can hear above 20kHz? Why would you need equipment to measure something that one can't hear.

Audible? Measure before and after and compare :)

Okay, how small are the small levels of IMD? Give us a graph of them, or just levels/dB/uV in interconnects.

And graph above shows that there isn't anything there that is audible. And it also shows that there aren't any IMPs in the audio band regardless of stopping at 100kHz, see my point about your ears hearing up to 100kHz above... simples...
 
tuga said:
I used to think that might be the case, but now I am more inclined to think that stubborn objectivists are either bad listeners or try hard not to hear anything that they believe might not be audible...or both.
Subjectivists reject blind testing, objectivists refuse to listen.
The world is in balance.
Click to expand...
Subjective in that case won't listen to reason and ignore repeatable, reviewed evidence. Ever heard of religion?

Both enjoy music, that's the balance.
 
sq225917 said:
C'mon Fourlegs surely a man with your depth of expertise in tackling signal cable borne rf propagation can throw a few ferrites in a box and sort this out.


Strange you should say you never had noise issues in your setup, isn't that exactly what your Wave cables are meant to deal with? Or are they for fixing the noise you never had?
Click to expand...
Mystical noise? :)

Noise that is generated by IMPs down to the audio band that can't be measured on a 3GHz SA? Don't those things have scale settings, BW? They did the last time I used one.

@Fourlegs at what freqs and levels are these IMPs at please?
 
chiily said:
Mystical noise? :)

Noise that is generated by IMPs down to the audio band that can't be measured on a 3GHz SA? Don't those things have scale settings, BW? They did the last time I used one.

@Fourlegs at what freqs and levels are these IMPs at please?
Click to expand...
Funny story...I was being transported between a couple of sites in a Gazelle heli one day, sitting on the floor of the Heli next to a large, two box R&S SA that cost more than my house! Pilot did a hard left, SA slid across the floor towards the open door, I grabbed it, it started to pull me with it. Bloke in the back with me, who was strapped in grabbed me so I didn't follow the SA out the door...never saw it again.

I assume it didn't bounce...
 
TheFlash said:
But the D-Link switch will kill much of this… as he uses a switch only 2m from his streamer. Cool. As recommended by experts and all that.
Click to expand...

Even if the D-Link did kill all that nasty noise that wasn't there in the first place (which it won't), It's still £2,730 cheaper than what is being touted on this thread ...

So either way you would be quids in when the non-existent noise that wasn't there in the first place doesn't get noticed when you listen to your toons :D:D
 
miktec said:
I never tire of posting this graph from Archimago on this thread ... and still they keep coming for more :D

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2016/11/measurements-on-value-for-ethernet.html#more

... tiny noise bump in the inaudible range with ethernet in place ....

Noise%2BCompare%2B-%2BNo%2BEthernet%2B-%2B60Hz%2Bcircled.png


Measured in the ANALOGUE domain !!!

Archimago himself:
"Remember furthermore that I'm looking at the analogue output from an audio daughterboard inside the machine itself within close range of the ethernet chipset! Just how much effect does anyone think there would be if I had an external USB DAC connected to the Raspberry Pi? (Rhetorical question...)"

(emphasis added for the hard of hearing .....)
Click to expand...

Does that tiny 6dB bump in the noise floor modulate the signal?
 
miktec said:
Even if the D-Link did kill all that nasty noise that wasn't there in the first place (which it won't), It's still £2,730 cheaper than what is being touted on this thread ...

So either way you would be quids in when the non-existent noise that wasn't there in the first place doesn't get noticed when you listen to your toons :D:D
Click to expand...
Firstly your abject denial is quaint.

Secondly, touting? Touting? Who’s touting? 99% of the posts here have been about the advantages of a switch - any switch - despite the title and opening post being about audiophile ones.

You really need to get out more, breathe some fresh air, stop obsessing angrily about something in which you claim to have no interest, and stop reading between the lines and distorting what is actually being said.
 
Last edited:
The tiny 6db bump is less interesting than the nature of the experiment, which is far less relevant to this thread than its promoters would have us believe. Quick, pass me that graph… I know, I know, but I just need a graph, any graph.:rolleyes:
 
TheFlash said:
The tiny 6db bump is less interesting than the nature of the experiment, which is far less relevant to this thread than its promoters would have us believe. Quick, pass me that graph… I know, I know, but I just need a graph, any graph.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Just as one would say if it was a electrocardiogram...damn useful at visualising information graphs are, and so I this case too as it says that there is nothing audible :)
 
The subjectivist camp doesn't seem to get that the objectivists would really like to identify some shortcoming of digital playback that needs improving, as it would justify designing some nice profitable equipment. Its getting hard to justify dCS prices over a Topping these days
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top