Audiophile Network Switches for Streaming ... really ?

[sq225917]

Nearly 20k of digital replay so broken it can only be fixed by an audiophile switch, oh the lolz.

 

[tuga]

Why bother, Amir on ASR and another online tech site has already done the connected and unplugged switch test and measurements.

His test suite is insuficcient, his views biased. Dogma over Science.

 

[TheFlash]

Nearly 20k of digital replay so broken it can only be fixed by an audiophile switch, oh the lolz.

Oh dear. You appear to be thinking/suggesting/asserting* that a switch must be there to fix something which is broken. No-one is suggesting that a switchless system is broken; a thing does not need to be broken to be improved upon.

Have you ever upgraded your hifi by replacing part of your system? Did you do so because the replacement component was better? Or because the original component was broken? Rhetorical question.

*I get confused. Please delete as applicable.

 

[jobseeker]

You’re not allowed to change any component unless you can prove it measures better. Unless you’re like me and you just fancy a change Actually, to ensure I stay on topic, there are three ethernet switches before my streamer(s). It just happens to be that way, I’ve never tested anything.

 

[booja30]

Oh dear. You appear to be thinking/suggesting/asserting* that a switch must be there to fix something which is broken. No-one is suggesting that a switchless system is broken; a thing does not need to be broken to be improved upon.

If this was the case, then as I asked earlier, how have none of the high end streamer companies not addressed this by sticking a (redundant) switch inside their products? With such expensive options out there, and with diminishing returns, surely if this was a worthy improvement it would be there. Or else you've stumbled onto something and you need to hire a patent lawyer ASAP!

 

[DonQuixote99]

the switch scenario is easy to test especially if your are running squeezelite , as everybody seems to trust their ears simply use the -b squeezelite option to enable a larger stream and output buffer that can cache the whole of the track. It takes a few seconds after pressing play to fill the stream buffer then just pull the ethernet connection, the track will continue to play without any network activity or possibility of ‘noise’ being injected via the ethernet connection.

But won't the buffer be possibly polluted as it fills? You'd think error-corrected storage of 1&0's would exclude noise, but isn't it still possible?

 

[David Halliday]

Actually laser generated light is noisy, due to both the laser and the speckle noise, but tiny compared with the volts level recovered digital signal. As this is the same as the recovered data from a RJ-45 cable, its not important.
What fibre does do is eliminate all mains and power supply related noise
The reason that fibre is not used is cost.

Most SFPs are NOT lasers these days (except long haul) they mostly use LED light sources, as we know, LEDs are used all over audio equipment. Flashing LEDs is certainly not a noise-inducing circuit.

 

[David Halliday]

But won't the buffer be possibly polluted as it fills? You'd think error-corrected storage of 1&0's would exclude noise, but isn't it still possible?

Nope the buffer fills from TCP/IP packets that are end to end guaranteed to be 100% accurate. Sometimes steams can be UDP packets but normally these have a CRC checksum as part of the payload.

 

[DonQuixote99]

Nope the buffer fills from TCP/IP packets that are end to end guaranteed to be 100% accurate. Sometimes steams can be UDP packets but normally these have a CRC checksum as part of the payload.

Thank-you. I kinda figured as much, but some doubt has been sewn

 

[kernow]

Polluted buffers
I literally can't sleep thinking about them

 

[Fergus]

If this was the case, then as I asked earlier, how have none of the high end streamer companies not addressed this by sticking a (redundant) switch inside their products? With such expensive options out there, and with diminishing returns, surely if this was a worthy improvement it would be there. Or else you've stumbled onto something and you need to hire a patent lawyer ASAP!

Wrong. Aqua have a switch inside their LinQ streamer, I’m sure they have good reasons.

 

[chiily]

Obviously they are deluded but I have just been reading elsewhere of new owners deluded with their Innuos PhoenixNET switches. If only they had stumbled across this thread prior to purchase everything might have turned out quite differently for them (or probably not)! I suspect they maybe they did read this thread but carried on with their purchases regardless.

Corrected that for you

 

[chiily]

Wrong. Aqua have a switch inside their LinQ streamer, I’m sure they have good reasons.

So that's one... next??

 

[Fergus]

So that's one... next??

He said none. Do your own investigation.

 

[chiily]

His test suite is insuficcient, his views biased. Dogma over Science.

Can you provide examples for his test suite being insufficient please? I'm curious.

 

[chiily]

He said none. Do your own investigation.

Oh dear.. sharp this morning...no caring sharing

 

[Fergus]

Oh dear.. sharp this morning...no caring sharing

Don’t need to be sharp when I’m dealing with your level of wit!

 

[sq225917]

Oooh, get a room will you two, this is a serious discussion.


Flash, maybe adding a switch does reduce noise coming in with the data, but the evidence doesn't back this up.

And if there's no audible difference between playing data back from buffer and with switch plugged in that would seem to imply there is no difference. Noise just doesn't hang around in the buffer like a little devil on your shoulder, that's not how electricity and digital signalling works.

You've got the noise issue, do the test, is it better with switch plugged in or with music playing from buffer? If there's no difference then test again, buffer vs no switch. And then try to explain what possible issue and fix could account for those results.

 

[chiily]

Oooh, get a room will you two, this is a serious discussion.

Really? Do I have to?

I only asked for other examples, one is not particularly conclusive.

Flash, maybe adding a switch does reduce noise coming in with the data, but the evidence doesn't back this up.

And if there's no audible difference between playing data back from buffer and with switch plugged in that would seem to imply there is no difference. Noise just doesn't hang around in the buffer like a little devil on your shoulder, that's not how electricity and digital signalling works.

You've got the noise issue, do the test, is it better with switch plugged in or with music playing from buffer? If there's no difference then test again, buffer vs no switch. And then try to explain what possible issue and fix could account for those results.

That would be a very simple way of doing it, and way to record and compare.

 

[tricky1]

Nope the buffer fills from TCP/IP packets that are end to end guaranteed to be 100% accurate. Sometimes steams can be UDP packets but normally these have a CRC checksum as part of the payload.

Not quite true. TCP/IP packets can and do get corrupted, just unlikely in this scenario. But the protocol takes care of this with retransmissions. Also, I would have thought the buffer you are referring to does not buffer packets but actual data. BTW, I am in the camp that switches cannot make any difference.