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Active speakers or not?

AndyU said:
But if your pre or DAC only has unbalanced outputs, an unbalanced to balanced cable is easy to buy or make. I have read that this still retains some of the advantages of balanced connection. The wiring details are in the speaker manual.
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Yes, I did this for a time from my naim pre. Depends how long a lead you are running. I ended up changing my pre-amp.
 
IceG said:
So to summarise, you prefer valve amplification to solid-state. Fine.

You enjoy the research and experimentation needed to succesfully and reliably match valve amplifiers to passive speakers. Knock yourself out.

And you know nothing about how high-end digital active speakers are built or what they can do. Until you do, why bother to comment?

Oh and by the way, ATC speakers are analogue (sic).
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Ive hit a nerve or something?

yes, ATC use active crossover which is analog.

you want to pay 20k for their speakers: knock yourself out.
Woodface said:
There’s always one.

Ultimately if you like the valve sound then actives are not really an option.

I don’t agree that ATCs are ‘ruthless’ but happy for people to prefer other speakers.
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I dont just love valves, i love some SS design. very few though. no way the SS design i like are found in active loudspeakers.

if i had the money for ATC, id definitely want to audition a pair.

but are they, by default, like some here claim, better all the time then passives, nope.
AndyU said:
This is what ATC say are the differences between active and passive speakers, and why you might choose one over the other:

"Passive speakers use crossover filters that only employ passive components (capacitors, resistors, inductors) and the crossover filters are ‘located’ between the power amplifier and the loudspeaker drive units.

Active loudspeakers use active (powered) crossover filters and the crossovers are ‘located’ before the power amplifiers. Each loudspeaker drive unit (two in a 2-way, three in a 3-way) has it own dedicated power amplifier, fed from the output of the active crossover.

While it is possible to design a high performance loudspeaker using passive components, an active design has a number of benefits, these are listed below;

1) More accurate crossovers
Active filters allow independent control of level and phase(time). This is not possible with passive crossovers. With a passive crossover any changes you make to the circuit affect both level and phase. The benefit this allows is that we can adjust for the crossover to have a perfect magnitude response and phase response. The result is that the stereo imaging is much more stable and the tonal balance of instruments is improved.
An active filters performance is not changed by the temperature of the drive unit voice coil as they are not directly connected to them. A passive crossovers performance (filter shape and crossover frequency) will change with voice coil temperature which, increases with SPL (input power). This leads to passive loudspeaker systems having a slightly different sound when driven at low SPL compared to high SPL. The performance of active ATC systems changes very little with drive level.
More efficient crossovers. Active crossovers do not need to use series inductors to achieve their filter shapes. Series inductors have resistance that reduces bass driver efficiency and also increases the Q of the low frequency tuning.
More cost effective crossovers. Passive crossover networks use large, bulky and expensive components in order to deal with the high voltages from a power amplifier. Active crossovers offer better performance for lower cost.

2) Lower Intermodulation-Distortion
As the separate amplifiers in an active system are located after the crossover, they only operate over a limited bandwidth. This reduces intermodulation-distortion and, in comparison to a passive system, even a bi or tri-amped passive system, an active system will show 15 – 20dB lower intermodulation distortion.

3) Improved Frequency Response and Stereo Matching
An active system can very simply feature individual gain trims for the two, three or four amplifiers involved. This allows very simple fine tuning of the frequency response and the stereo matching. Similar matching in a passive system would involve the replacement of large, soldered passive components which, in practice, is difficult and time consuming for the manufacturer.

4) Lower Cost for Higher Performance
Because an active system is designed, engineered and implemented by a single manufacturer into as compact a package as the design allows, cost is saved on electronics case work and packaging and the manufacturer can invest in real performance enhancing changes or pass the saving on to the customer."

https://atc.audio/faqs/
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ATC is biased
They make much more profit out of every of their customer if they buy the active version.
 
Ayya Khema said:
Ive hit a nerve or something?

yes, ATC use active crossover which is analog.

you want to pay 20k for their speakers: knock yourself out.

I dont just love valves, i love some SS design. very few though. no way the SS design i like are found in active loudspeakers.

if i had the money for ATC, id definitely want to audition a pair.

but are they, by default, like some here claim, better all the time then passives, nope.

ATC is biased
They make much more profit out of every of their customer if they buy the active version.
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I must have been very lucky as I didn’t pay £20k for my ATC speakers. Amps are class AB with a decent bias into class A. They were actually about the same in terms of cost compared to my previous passive/power amp set up in terms of RRP.
 
Ex ATC owner (only the passive SCM19v2), used with a Nord power amp - loved them to bits.
Currently using active AE1s, love them to bits too.

The future for me...SCM50ASL based on my room size, 150s if i move.

In summary, actives offer great value for money. They are literally engineered to match the speakers as opposed to 'suck it and see' with adding amps. Fewer boxes, better matched, better sound (imo). I think if the hifi industry had to do it all again, actives would be the norm. Hifi companies want to sell you more boxes. You dont need them.
 
I’ve heard a few active ATCs and didn’t have quite the same enthusiasm as their owners. But their owners had come from SBLs or Isobariks so it’s understandable.
 
Alex S said:
I’ve heard a few active ATCs and didn’t have quite the same enthusiasm as their owners. But their owners had come from SBLs or Isobariks so it’s understandable.
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Funny that. I did have SBLs but at least one prominent Isobarik owner on here hates them.

It’s just a matter of what you like.
 
I think it’s partly what music you like and more, at what level, and most of all, what your room is like.
 
FWIW All speakers, Passive & Active improve when the source component is improved. Then the Pre, followed by the amp/s & then the speakers which simply spit out the information/signals they receive from all those other components upstream from the drivers, garbage in, garbage out as they say..

The best the X-overs/speakers -passive or active- can do is try to not mess up too badly those signals they receive which are then relayed to the listener, and no speakers can improve upon the signals they receive, or in turn alter or process those signals to be more musical or tuneful if those features are not already coming from the source to begin with.
 
Alex S said:
I think it’s partly what music you like and more, at what level, and most of all, what your room is like.
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Room yes, music no. Level makes no difference. I’ve yet to find music which doesn’t sound at least very good on mine.
 
tpetsch said:
FWIW All speakers, Passive & Active improve when the source component is improved. Then the Pre, followed by the amp/s & then the speakers which simply spit out the information/signals they receive from all those other components upstream from the drivers, garbage in, garbage out as they say..

The best the X-overs/speakers -passive or active- can do is try to not mess up too badly those signals they receive which are then relayed to the listener, and no speakers can improve upon the signals they receive, or in turn alter or process those signals to be more musical or tuneful if those features are not already coming from the source to begin with.
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Probably more true in the analogue age. Not really true now when even modest equipment measures incredibly well with negligible distortion. I think speakers make the biggest difference now.
 
Woodface said:
Room yes, music no. Level makes no difference. I’ve yet to find music which doesn’t sound at least very good on mine.
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All ATCs I’ve heard are half asleep at low level so congratulations finding the exception. You don’t know what valve sound is, haven’t had one. Try listening to something like the Leben/Falcon system in another thread. At least then, your endless ‘get ATCs’ will have a better frame of reference.
 
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Alex S said:
All ATCs I’ve heard are half asleep at low level so congratulations finding the exception. You don’t know what valve sound is, haven’t had one. Try listening to something like the Leben/Falcon system in another thread. At least then, your endless ‘get ATCs’ will have a better frame of reference.
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Someone up thread said there isn’t a valve sound so i don’t understand what you are suggesting?

I want a system that will play anything I throw at it, not sure Leben/Falcon system would do that. I would like to hear some BBC style monitors but not sure I’d want to own them.

I think ATC make great speakers, lot of people agree with me. I don’t really have an interest in valves, too fussy for me.
 
I tend to like active analogue 3-ways. No speaker is perfect, but these have a spread of qualities that I want. I've heard good examples from (alphabetical order) ATC, MEG and PSI Audio. If you have a big room, get a big one. There's not much built-in to correct a bad room, but then if you want the best results the room and placement will often anyway be a fundamental area to work on. I agree with Ayya though, they can get very expensive.
 
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