Cyclists to be awarded equality with motorists.

[flatpopely]

Personally, I'm unconvinced by the effectiveness of punitive incarceration in the reduction of harm from driving offences and would rather see any death or injury caused by dangerous or careless driving result in a lifetime driving ban rather than jail time.

1000+ deaths every year caused by cars merits this distinction. One death every 5 years by bicycle does not and the ultimate sanction of manslaughter still applies. I also think that there's a whole host of stuff that comes under 'negligence' which should be brought under the manslaughter banner, but that's another conversation.

Do you drive a car?

 

[Woodface]

examples are totally irrelevant when we are talking about a principle you don't seem to accept - i didnt ever say a driver has been given 20 years - what i am saying is the sentencing tariff for killing a pedestrian by a car and killing a pedestrian by a bicycle should be the same in the same circumstances. After the principle is accepted into law, you can argue all you like about how it is implemented, and operationalised.

To be blunt i dont care what the tariff is, but all offenders should be treated equally.

I agree with you but just pointing out that the principal of the law rarely translates into practice. I would be in favour of a minimum tarif for death by bike/cycle/car. I get that certain mitigating circumstances need to be taken into account. For example, a front wheel puncture on a cycle can make it completely out of control, less so for a car?

Most law is case law, precedents are set just getting something on the statute books is largely academic.

 

[foxwelljsly]

Do you drive a car?

Yes, but I lived without one for 25 of my adult years, so could probably survive without one, as could anyone. Driving is a privilege, not a right. **** up badly and it should be taken away.

 

[Woodface]

Do you drive a car?

Out of interest, do you cycle?

 

[flatpopely]

Yes, but I lived without one for 25 of my adult years, so could probably survive without one, as could anyone. Driving is a privilege, not a right.

Driving is essential for many, not a privilege.

 

[gintonic]

I agree with you

good -

just pointing out that the principal of the law rarely translates into practice

we know that, and its not just this corner of the law - it isnt a conspiracy against cyclists - it across the full gamut of the law. Don't worry very soon judges will be replaced by an AI (The Auto Judge) who will hear the evidence, consider all legal documents, all sides, the law and handout a verdict and then calculate the sentence (to the hour)

 

[flatpopely]

Out of interest, do you cycle?

Yes, the odd time I’ve posted about it I’ve had sarcastic comments about the bike I ride.

Once my knee is ok I’ll be back on it, possibly riding to the pub.

 

[Brian]

@Woodface
I asked you a question earlier. Here it is again...

Not sure what your point is. Since that’s a post made closely after mine is it somehow related? At no point did I say or imply all cyclists jump red lights. You do give the impression here you think it is fine for cyclists to jump red lights. It isn’t. I see cars doing this too, not as many as cyclists, though.

Let me ask you a straight question. If I had been hit and injured by that cyclist yesterday while I was crossing on a green man, what action do you think appropriate for the cyclist? Assuming he is also sufficiently damaged to not scarper, there is a witness and a cop to hand quickly enough, that is. Please no whataboutism. Just tell me what should happen to the cyclist.

Sounds like this is something you have done before. Lunatic you say?

Two wrongs don't make a right, Brian.

What the hell are you on about?

Seeing as people here are posting all sorts of anecdotal accounts of almost being hit by a cyclist from years ago, check out this actual dashcam footage of a Porsche driver from a couple of years ago that killed a pregnant teacher and tell me that cycles are equal to cars.

To suggest that there is any degree of equivalence is like saying you should get a firearms licence for a toy bow and arrow. This is 2 tons of metal capable of doing ridiculous speeds that any idiot could walk in and drive away. If anyone is suggesting that cylists have to be insured and registered, then, by applying the same thresholds of risk mitigation, cars should be banned.

FWIW, I have witnessed numerous incidents on our local small a and b roads over the last couple of years in which I have seen drivers execute similar, if less extreme, overtaking manoeuvres and it's bloody terrifying.

Maybe I should post this in the adjacent thread about hammering around B roads in Fiesta STs?

Yesterday, fella. Yesterday.

Same question to you as ignored by woodface in bold above.

 

[foxwelljsly]

Driving is essential for many, not a privilege.

No it's not. People can always move closer to amenities or find new jobs if they're careless enough to lose their driving privileges.

 

[flatpopely]

No it's not. People can always move closer to amenities or find new jobs if they lose their driving privileges.

Just how many people rely on a car to get to work or do their job. Your statement is just crass.

 

[Spraggons Den]

The halcyonic dynamo that lit up my childhood
Made me feel secure on the roads in winter
But the nauseating bashfulness of early Diana
Makes me want to set fire to commemorative tea towels

 

[foxwelljsly]

@Woodface
I asked you a question earlier. Here it is again...



What the hell are you on about?


Yesterday, fella. Yesterday.

Same question to you as ignored by woodface in bold above.

Sorry, do you mean:

If I had been hit and injured by that cyclist yesterday while I was crossing on a green man, what action do you think appropriate for the cyclist? Assuming he is also sufficiently damaged to not scarper, there is a witness and a cop to hand quickly enough, that is. Please no whataboutism. Just tell me what should happen to the cyclist.

If so, I'm not a legal expert, but something like a Charge of assault occasioning actual bodily harm?

 

[Woodface]

Yes, the odd time I’ve posted about it I’ve had sarcastic comments about the bike I ride.

Once my knee is ok I’ll be back on it, possibly riding to the pub.

It’s interesting how much people are influenced by personal experience & how that is viewed by others. I am seen by some on here as a militant/campaigner on here in terms of cycling. In reality I cycle for exercise 4-5 times a week & cover around 8k miles a year, in the past I have been a high mileage driver & still use a car regularly for business.

I like to see myself as being neutral in that one mode of transport does educate & influence my behaviour in the other.

 

[farfromthesun]

What the hell are you on about?

That someone stepping purposely in front of someone who rode through a red light is an equally twattish bit of behaviour.

Contemplating doing so isn't much better.

 

[Woodface]

good -



we know that, and its not just this corner of the law - it isnt a conspiracy against cyclists - it across the full gamut of the law. Don't worry very soon judges will be replaced by an AI (The Auto Judge) who will hear the evidence, consider all legal documents, all sides, the law and handout a verdict and then calculate the sentence (to the hour)

Judge Dread?

 

[foxwelljsly]

Just how many people rely on a car to get to work or do their job. Your statement is just crass.

It's not. We don't need to cars to work or live. That's ridiculous. Plenty of people get by without one. Are you saying you'd die if someone took your car away?

 

[Woodface]

Driving is essential for many, not a privilege.

It absolutely is a privilege & one that can & should be taken away for many people.

It’s amazing how many people who need a car do so much to jeopardise their use of it.

 

[gintonic]

Are you saying you'd die if someone took your car away?

a persons livelihood might die

 

[flatpopely]

It's not. We don't need to cars to work or live. That's ridiculous. Plenty of people get by without one.

Yes we do need cars. I cover the UK as a job and it's essential I meet people face to face. I wonder what the percentage of people would not be able to work without a car?

Edit : Rural (not Urban) living would be decimated.

 

[foxwelljsly]

Yes we do need cars. I cover the UK as a job and it's essential I meet people face to face. I wonder what the percentage of people would not be able to work without a car? Urban living would be decimated.

So, you'd have to change jobs if you couldn't drive. Doesn't make it essential. If the planet is not going to catch fire, we are all going to have to stop moving about so much, anyway.

Seriously, I'm sure you'd show a bit more resourcefulness than you seem to imply here were you to lose your licence permanently.