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David Amess MP stabbed in Leigh-On-Sea

mik_rik said:
Would private security guards be allowed to carry guns etc.I thought they had no more right to carry guns etc than any member of the public (even if they do like to dress to intimidate in semi paramilitary style "uniforms") What could possibly go wrong - as the saying goes !.
Before you know it they'll all be wearing Brown Shirts
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I would think so. What use would they be without guns? Don't the drivers and guards in armoured bank vans have guns in the UK?
 
mik_rik said:
Would private security guards be allowed to carry guns etc.
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Perhaps, I don't think the law differs in England than in N.I , it may though and it may have changed but during the 90's and possibly before a civilian in N.I could apply for and buy a PPW (personal protection weapon) normally these were civilians who worked in the construction for the M.O.D or building Police stations.
 
No ,they cannot carry weapons of any sort.They are ordinary members of the public as far as being armed is concerned(google it)
 
Seeker_UK said:
Let's assume you get your way and MPs don't get the security nor the money. What do you think will happen? Well, the death threats will almost certainly continue and probably scare off a lot of people who would consider a career as an MP meaning the only ones who stay in the game are either happy to take the risk going it alone (unlikely) and only those with the money to afford their own "hired goons" or can find some suitably beefy mates (like the EDL do) or, for fear of going full Godwin, create their own security force. Not necessarily the types you want in those jobs.
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We live in a society where ambulance drivers and firemen routinely have bricks and bottles thrown at them, nurses are spat at and punched, teachers kicked and stabbed. This is just the state of the UK after 40+ years of right-wing rule, inequality, underfunding and division, and it is only getting worse. These moderately paid public sector workers will not be getting bodyguards.

Again it appears (thankfully) that David Amess was not killed for his political beliefs. This was not an enraged LGBT or disabled person reacting to his voting record, his party’s corruption, xenophobia etc. This appears to have been an Islamist extremist looking for someone to murder, because that’s just what these brainwashed shitheads do. If it hadn’t been the MP it would likely have been the vicar, church warden or some other equally innocent victim. You can’t protect everyone from this sort of irrational random threat.

PS It absolutely repulses me that so many are attempting a political land-grab from an admittedly awful situation. The reality is this is a terribly sad event where a religious extremist killed a man. This has happened previously. It will no doubt happen again.
 
Andrew C! said:
I assume in your mind Labour is also classed as right wing, then?
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Yes, maybe not as hard-right as the Tories, but Blair, Straw, Blunkett etc seemed pretty right-wing and authoritarian to me. That’s the only Labour government of my voting life, so really all I can assess. I appreciate they improved the NHS and education, very noticeably, but there were a lot of remarkably bad things too. I voted for their first term and against the rest. Some of Corbyn’s ideas were left of centre, but he clearly didn’t have any sway or consensus within his party, didn’t support electoral reform, was hopelessly inadequate on Brexit etc. Starmer is just depressingly bad, cowardly nodding along with Tory nationalism, authoritarianism etc. They certainly don’t represent me as a party even though there are some decent MPs here and there on the benches.
 
Tony L said:
We live in a society where ambulance drivers and firemen routinely have bricks and bottles thrown at them, nurses are spat at and punched, teachers kicked and stabbed. This is just the state of the UK after 40+ years of right-wing rule, inequality, underfunding and division, and it is only getting worse. These moderately paid public sector workers will not be getting bodyguards.

Again it appears (thankfully) that David Amess was not killed for his political beliefs. This was not an enraged LGBT or disabled person reacting to his voting record, his party’s corruption, xenophobia etc. This appears to have been an Islamist extremist looking for someone to murder, because that’s just what these brainwashed shitheads do. If it hadn’t been the MP it would likely have been the vicar, church warden or some other equally innocent victim. You can’t protect everyone from this sort of irrational random threat.

PS It absolutely repulses me that so many are attempting a political land-grab from an admittedly awful situation. The reality is this is a terribly sad event where a religious extremist killed a man. This has happened previously. It will no doubt happen again.
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agreed ,it's a real risk .2 weeks ago I sat watching a suspicious character who came and sat at the back of church . I watched him like a hawk as this is a real risk .There are so many with an axe to grind
 
hifinutt said:
agreed ,it's a real risk .2 weeks ago I sat watching a suspicious character who came and sat at the back of church . I watched him like a hawk as this is a real risk .There are so many with an axe to grind
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It is sadly a part of life. I was on a tube on the way to Soho on the night and time of the Admiral Duncan nail-bombing. I wasn’t on the way to that specific pub, but I’d certainly have walked past it. This shit happens, but viewed statistically it is a tiny, tiny trace element of risk, far less dangerous than crossing a road or negotiating a flight of stairs. I’m actually remarkably poor at maths, but I grasp enough of the basics to realise in a population of 60 million the 95 or so deaths we have suffered at the hands of religious or political extremists over the past 20 years is effectively a rounding error, if that. Obviously every death is an absolute tragedy, the very last thing I want to do is to downplay or trivialise anything, it is incomprehensibly horrible, but as a statistical risk factor it really is nothing. I turned up for my usual museum volunteering shift a couple of days after the Manchester Arena bombing. As did everyone else.
 
The level of child poverty in
Southend-on-Sea (20.6%) is worse
than the England average (18.6%)
and the regional average (15.4%)
Feb2017 figures.
 
There are extremists on both sides that want a race war. Especially in the USA.
There are extremists on both sides that want a return to the attitudes of crusades. Bush/Blair knelt and prayed before launching an illegal war that killed hundreds of thousands.
Radical Islam did not suddenly appear out of nothing. IMO a few in The West did more to create it than anyone in Saudi Arabia. Read the history. Actions have reactions and so it continues..
This is the only way the right wing win elections. It is a cynical fanning of the flames.
 
wacko said:
IMO a few in The West did more to create it than anyone in Saudi Arabia.
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I’m far from convinced by that. Obviously western imperialism and oil crusading is a big part, but the actual funding behind the radicalisation can easily be traced back to Saudi. The problem is the US and UK political establishment are so enslaved by Saudi wealth and pork barrels they turn a blind eye even to closely related atrocities such as 9/11.
 
Tony L said:
We live in a society where ambulance drivers and firemen routinely have bricks and bottles thrown at them, nurses are spat at and punched, teachers kicked and stabbed. This is just the state of the UK after 40+ years of right-wing rule, inequality, underfunding and division, and it is only getting worse. These moderately paid public sector workers will not be getting bodyguards.
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This type of behaviour goes back far longer than 40 years. In his autobiography the photographer Don Mccullin recounts gangs of children in London just after the war setting fire to stuff on bombsites, then throwing bricks at the firemen who came to put the fires out.
 
Barrymagrec said:
This type of behaviour goes back far longer than 40 years. In his autobiography the photographer Don Mccullin recounts gangs of children in London just after the war setting fire to stuff on bombsites, then throwing bricks at the firemen who came to put the fires out.
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I’m sure you are right. I can only frame things in the context of my own experience, which also involves moving from a very nice sheltered and safe middle-class area as a child to full-on inner-city life as an adult. I’m obviously not a historian, though I realise some things we accept such as ‘the blitz spirit’ are revisionist to a degree and burglaries whilst people were in bomb-shelters were fairly common-place. A lot of humans are just a bit shit for a whole raft of reasons.
 
Barrymagrec said:
This type of behaviour goes back far longer than 40 years. In his autobiography the photographer Don Mccullin recounts gangs of children in London just after the war setting fire to stuff on bombsites, then throwing bricks at the firemen who came to put the fires out.
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Blimey, if they'd been born 60 years later they could have joined the Gilets Jaune.
 
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WTF has online got to do with anything?
Still, far be it from the tories to let an opportunity to capitalise on a tragedy go to waste.

Some opinion that the murderer's motive might be his chairing of the all party group on Qatar, and that the UK and Qatar's position on Somalia.
 
ff1d1l said:
WTF has online got to do with anything?
Still, far be it from the tories to let an opportunity to capitalise on a tragedy go to waste.
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I get your point, but I do think some keyboard warriors do need some semblance of regulating. Some of the stuff I've seen sent is simply appalling.
 
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