I don't want this to be true, and I must admit it seems a bit unlikely. For most of the 60s Dylan could have had pretty much any woman he wanted, if he'd had a thing for young girls extending to illegally young girls then I'd have thought that there would be a history of very young partners just over the age of consent. There isn't, so if the alleged incident happened then it appears to be isolated to one person. This seems unlikely, Dylan's (widely reported) choice of women at that time was women around his own age. He doesn't even seem to have put it about that much. Most young men in that position would, we all know.
Rockmeister
pfm Member
Just on the dates, the accusation is 'a period between April ( ...so we take April 1 as a start date) and May' so May 1st as the end date?
Dylan was touring the states until April 24th...that's pretty much ALL of the period in question. He didn't arrive in the UK until April 29th.
He played a concert in Berkley on April 3rd, and two on the 23rd and 24th at Portland and Seattle. The 3 weeks between, he would have likely been at home in Hotel Chelsea, just where the allegations say he was. Lawyers don't file cases unless these basics at least are right.
Proving the allegations will be, lengthy. My cynicaloldgit hat says that Lawyers will get rich whatever happens. I do hope it's NOT true. My Dylan collection is HUGE. So much music I couldn't ever play again
Dylan was touring the states until April 24th...that's pretty much ALL of the period in question. He didn't arrive in the UK until April 29th.
He played a concert in Berkley on April 3rd, and two on the 23rd and 24th at Portland and Seattle. The 3 weeks between, he would have likely been at home in Hotel Chelsea, just where the allegations say he was. Lawyers don't file cases unless these basics at least are right.
Proving the allegations will be, lengthy. My cynicaloldgit hat says that Lawyers will get rich whatever happens. I do hope it's NOT true. My Dylan collection is HUGE. So much music I couldn't ever play again
Rockmeister
pfm Member
Having been 15 at the time and thus 'of age' a few years later when morals were the same, I can remember, very clearly, a good few incidents of young ladies under age, 'throwing themselves' at the rich and famous (not me, but aquaintances I knew fairly well), all of whom said NO, but the corridors outside back stage 'dressing' rooms were raely empty of ladies from 12 to 22.
And being rejected? That's a long lasting thing for some. Revenge is a dish best tasted cold I read.
Well anyway. I just don't want it to be true.
Howdy
pfm Member
The abuse etc. was supposedly happening over the course of six weeks in April and May 1965. So, no, May 1st can't be the end date.
He left for UK with Joan Baez (documented by Pennebaker) on April 25th 1965 from Seattle-Tacoma International Airport.
On the 9th, he was in Vancouver.
After that he was with Sara Lownds in L.A. until his concert in Portland 23rd (busy getting her pregnant). This is the least documented period of his April-May 1965 whereabouts, but surely there are documents that put him in California. If he was indeed in NY, the documents will also surface.
His 1965 May is very much documented - he was UK or Portugal.
All in all, we have less well documented 5 days between his Berkley and Vancouver concerts. And 2 weeks between Vancouver and Portland. - Far from 6 weeks. And he was most probably on the other side of US at the time.
Except, his home was not Chelsea Hotel. On East Coast, his home was in Woodstock in that period. But, as mentioned, he was more probably in L.A.
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Of course. We'd all like to shag our idol. That's what I tell Kylie anyway.
There's a tale of John Peel on tour with the Radio 1 Roadshow, apparently they had their pals at all the tour venues. We all know that at that time R1 DJs were only one down from the stars. So they had their groupies, it was Gt Yarmouth one day, then on to Cleethorpes, Scarborough, Blackpool, etc. Back to the hotel, sod it, let's have a few pints. So-and-so's here with her friend, great. She met us last year, remember? One such never had full sex with the DJs but was known as the BJ queen on account of her enthusiasm for that activity. On one such evening she announced that next week was her birthday. "Great, Happy Birthday!". "Yes, I'm going to be 16". Sharp intakes of breath all round. She'd been a fixture over the previous couple of years when the show was in her part of the world and the DJs had just done the arithmetic.
As a grown adult male, I'm not having it that they didn't know. Some girls looking older? Sure you could mistake a 16 year old for 18, but 12/13? F*** off I'm not having it.
Says everything about the scummy behaviour of DJ’s, Radio 1 has always targeted the teen market, the road shows were essentially aimed at kids. Even if the girl had been 16 it was pretty poor behaviour (if I’m being very generous).
Exactly. It’s quite upsetting to see such tales used as examples of justifiable behaviour; ‘they were all at it etc’.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
In the late sixties Sable Starr and Lori Maddox were known in LA as the 'baby groupies' because they were underage. Everyone knew.
Starr claimed to have lost her virginity aged 12 to the guitarist in Spirit. Iggy Pop later sang "“I slept with Sable when she was 13" in the song 'Look Away'.
The Radio 1 peado tour would have been more accurate, and yes we know Saint John Peel was no better, from his own book.
Yep, I never really understood the veneration of Peel, he was fraud, an elaborate act at best.
It does, and maybe also about the morals of the times in that regard.
I don’t think morals have changed that much since the 80s in this regard. Yes, the ‘me too’ movement has enlightened some of previous bad behaviour, but grown blokes shagging very young girls from positions of power has always been unacceptable. However, it always seems the case that some get a soother ride from the court of public opinion if they are deemed as artists. Roman Polanski being an example, he never really faced any kind of justice.
How many of these dodgy DJs are still employed by the BBC? A fair few I reckon?
I think they have. I remember a girl in my year who reckoned aged 12 to have an 18 year old boyfriend. I know he had a car. Use of one at least. It was pretty widespread amongst the more precocious types.
True, but the US courts did summons him, and didn't he have to decamp to Switzerland?
God knows. They are popping up now on stations like Greatest Hits Radio, I find them periodically when I'm in the car. Simon Mayo, Janice Long, etc.
Marchbanks
Hat and Beard member
I know, I know... and it’s OK, I turned 16 in 1972.
mansr
Objectionist
He fled to France. In 2009, he was arrested in Switzerland and spent a couple of months in jail there.
Rockmeister
pfm Member
Never trust what you read.
PaulMB
pfm Member
I was there, in the late '60s, and can confirm that the morals/rules were different. In "artistic" circles there was little concern with very young girls (or boys) having sex, the key thing was not to get pregnant. Even then 12 years old would have been a bit dodgy, but in liberal, trendy and swinging London it was quite acceptable, often even by their parents, that girls of 14 or 15 had sex.