advertisement


Complete moron on a bike

A women was stopped on the M1 doing 130mph in a G-Wagon, apparently desperate for the toilet. Plenty of idiots to go round.
 
Woodface said:
I don’t really understand how I am part of the problem. I work from home, use my car sparingly & cycle mainly in Peak District for exercise. I get a lot of aggression from drivers & close passes because some see country lanes as a racetrack. I don’t see any equivalence between me or another cyclist potentially holding up a motorist for 10 seconds & they taking risks with my life to get past.

We’ve had this discussion before & I can no longer be bothered.
Click to expand...

Nothing to do with anyone holding people up, that is just part of us all sharing the roads and is a non issue. To me, and I stress this is just my opinion, you come across as having a bit of a hostile attitude towards drivers just because a minority of them cause you issues when you are cycling. This is the same rhetoric I see from drivers (even in this thread) when they use their anecdotal evidence of a minority of cyclists behaving badly to make sweeping generalisations about cyclists. This sort of ‘us versus them’ palaver is part of the problem. Far better we all accept that some road users are dicks irrespective of their mode of use and the rest of us try and ensure our behaviour goes towards making the roads safer for all.
 
vince rocker said:
Because the Highway Code requires that drivers give cyclists 1.5m of room.
Click to expand...

The Highway Code doesn't specify an absolute distance, merely "plenty of room". 212 - https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/motorcyclists-and-cyclists.html

And " at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car " 163- https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/using-the-road-overtaking.html

That said, unless you're a complete devoidoid behind the wheel, that should be all you need to know to overtake a cyclist safely.
 
tiggers said:
Nothing to do with anyone holding people up, that is just part of us all sharing the roads and is a non issue. To me, and I stress this is just my opinion, you come across as having a bit of a hostile attitude towards drivers just because a minority of them cause you issues when you are cycling. This is the same rhetoric I see from drivers (even in this thread) when they use their anecdotal evidence of a minority of cyclists behaving badly to make sweeping generalisations about cyclists. This sort of ‘us versus them’ palaver is part of the problem. Far better we all accept that some road users are dicks irrespective of their mode of use and the rest of us try and ensure our behaviour goes towards making the roads safer for all.
Click to expand...
I’ve never put a motorist at risk, that is the point, I have had a friend nearly killed by a car driver, others badly injured.

I cycle about 8000 miles a year, I see quite a lot of bad behaviour. I just expect more from drivers, what is so unreasonable about that?

I think very little of it is malicious, usually just carelessness or ignorance.
 
Woodface said:
I cycle about 8000 miles a year, I see quite a lot of bad behaviour. I just expect more from drivers, what is so unreasonable about that?
Click to expand...

I don’t doubt that you do, so do I. I expect more from those drivers but most are fine. I also (particularly in London) see a lot of bad behaviour from cyclists, but again the majority are great. It’s the way of the world and while I would love all bad road users to be held to account I know it isn’t going to happen. My observation of you from your posts on pfm on road related threads is that whenever an incident is mentioned between a driver and a. n. other you are very quick to defend the third party and have a dig at the driver and I think that is a dangerous mindset to get into. I could be wrong of course and if so I apologise, but that is how it seems and I feel these sort of attitudes are getting engrained in various ‘sides’ of the argument. If you watch some of the driving and cycling channels on YT you can see this in action. We need more unity and universal condemnation of poor road use in general, not an us versus them mindset. All IMO
 
Seeker_UK said:
The Highway Code doesn't specify an absolute distance, merely "plenty of room". 212 - https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/motorcyclists-and-cyclists.html

And " at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car " 163- https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/using-the-road-overtaking.html

That said, unless you're a complete devoidoid behind the wheel, that should be all you need to know to overtake a cyclist safely.
Click to expand...
tiggers said:
I don’t doubt that you do, so do I. I expect more from those drivers but most are fine. I also (particularly in London) see a lot of bad behaviour from cyclists, but again the majority are great. It’s the way of the world and while I would love all bad road users to be held to account I know it isn’t going to happen. My observation of you from your posts on pfm on road related threads is that whenever an incident is mentioned between a driver and a. n. other you are very quick to defend the third party and have a dig at the driver and I think that is a dangerous mindset to get into. I could be wrong of course and if so I apologise, but that is how it seems and I feel these sort of attitudes are getting engrained in various ‘sides’ of the argument. If you watch some of the driving and cycling channels on YT you can see this in action. We need more unity and universal condemnation of poor road use in general, not an us versus them mindset. All IMO
Click to expand...
I probably am more likely to blame the driver as I believe they have more responsibility towards vulnerable road users & pedestrians. The bigger the vehicle you drive the more training & care is generally required; you have to take into account the balance of harm.

I can’t understand how this is not seen as self evident. I honestly believe that if more people cycled we would have safer roads.

In the last week we have had some terrible incidents with drivers, a car ploughed into 6 pedestrians last week but the coverage will always be greater if the protagonist is on two wheels. It’s how the media works, bad news sells, bad news with a novelty sells more.

As I am in a cycling club & a member of British Cycling, I concede some bias here but I have witnessed first hand how dangerous attitudes can be. All I ask is that people are careful & view a driving license as a privilege rather than a right.

Yes, I have insurance & I always wear a helmet with appropriate lights in winter & reflective clothing. A proper road safety campaign is needed, a bit like the ‘Think Bike’ messaging from the 70s.
 
& to add, there did seem to be a fair few on here quick to side with a drunk driver over someone riding an e-scooter. But it is only me that is biased?
 
Woodface said:
I probably am more likely to blame the driver as I believe they have more responsibility towards vulnerable road users & pedestrians. The bigger the vehicle you drive the more training & care is generally required; you have to take into account the balance of harm.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, I wanted to post something myself.
 
Woodface said:
In Holland they have presumed liability I believe, probably a good idea.

In normal times I used to drive around 15k a year; I’ve seen a lot of bad behaviour.
Click to expand...

It’s why I only ride an MTB now, I felt like I was a statistic waiting to happen. Drivers can be very shallow, like you said up thread, cyclists holding up other’s invokes some dangerous behaviour by drivers, totally at odds with the vulnerable cyclists well-being.

The odds are stacked massively against cyclists when any collision/incident happens, it’s from a position of unfairness that cyclists start from, so I don’t see you being ‘biased’, you’re just trying to correct the balance of power.
 
Woodface said:
& to add, there did seem to be a fair few on here quick to side with a drunk driver over someone riding an e-scooter. But it is only me that is biased?
Click to expand...

I hope you are not including me in that fair few, I condemned the driver and still do. I merely pointed out all sides of the incident and as Andrew C said you’re best to reserve judgement until all the evidence is in front of you and even then it might not be enough. Doubtful in this case thankfully so the driver will hopefully be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
 
Cyclists can't be absolved of responsibility just because they are more vulnerable, though. I know it's only anecdotal, but I still see cyclists going up the inside of large vehicles which are signalling left, despite all the publicity, signage on the back of said vehicles, etc. I also see cyclists riding on the road alongside a clearly marked cycle track, in one case I use regularly the track is expressly there because the road is relatively narrow and twisty, with poor sight lines, so the cycle track is both safer, and helps keep traffic moving. Using it is a no-brainer; but still, a significant minority don't. I see cyclists cycling at the kerbside on the right hand side, contrary to the direction of traffic. I see cyclists wearing dark hoodies, at night, without lights.

There is no requirement for cyclists to have undertaken training before using the roads, and it really shows. I'd be interested to know if there's any analysis of how many cycling casualties are a result of such culpable negligence. My suspicion is that it's not trivial, based on my own observations. That then loads the argument slightly unfairly in the cyclists' favour as at least a proportion of the stats are not the motorists' fault. Motorists do have a responsibility to look out for others, but equally, cyclists have a responsibility to look out for themselves. I use defensive driving techniques where appropriate; cyclists should do the same.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Cyclists can't be absolved of responsibility just because they are more vulnerable, though. I know it's only anecdotal, but I still see cyclists going up the inside of large vehicles which are signalling left, despite all the publcity, signage on the back of said vehicles, etc. I also see cyclists riding on the road alongside a clearly marked cycle track, in one case I use regularly the track is expressly there because the road is relatively narrow and twisty, with poor sight lines, so the cycle track is both safer, and helps keep traffic moving. Using it is a no-brainer; but still, a significant minority don't. I see cyclists cycling at the kerbside on the right hand side, contrary to the direction of traffic. I see cyclists wearing dark hoodies, at night, without lights.

There is no requirement for cyclists to have undertaken training before using the roads, and it really shows. I'd be interested to know if there's any analysis of how many cycling casualties are a result of such culpable negligence. My suspicion is that it's not trivial, based on my own observations. That then loads the argument slightly unfairly in the cyclists' favour. Motorists do have a responsibility to look out for others, but equally, cyclists have a responsibility to look out for themselves. I use defensive driving techniques where appropriate; cyclists should do the same.
Click to expand...
Recent experience tells me that cyclists, especially in large groups, are just as capable of aggressive, inconsiderate, selfish and dangerous use of the public highways as are car drivers
 
Woodface said:
The bigger the vehicle you drive the more training & care is generally required; you have to take into account the balance of harm.
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree. I add there are some cyclists who remember this only when they're the little guy, and forget it when they're the big guy and pedestrians are the little guys. Again this a minority of cyclists but again an imbalance of harm and therefore more responsibility should be on the big guy (the bike in this case).

But there's no doubt that car drivers can do much more harm, whilst being protected from harm, no arguments they are - much - higher than bikes and pedestrians in the danger/responsibility tree.
 
foxwelljsly said:
Rules are only as effective as their enforcement. This is what I have argued until I'm blue in the face. If the enforcement of road rules is fully and strictly automated, we wouldn't need cycle paths as the roads on which cycling is permitted would be safe enough for all to use. It would also be cheaper, in the long run, than using the police for this.
Click to expand...

How would you enforce "not paying attention"?

I would much rather be on dedicated, separated cycle path when the old person with poor eyesight is passing. or the nob twiddling his satnav/nob/stereo/phone is passing.
 
tiggers said:
I hope you are not including me in that fair few, I condemned the driver and still do. I merely pointed out all sides of the incident and as Andrew C said you’re best to reserve judgement until all the evidence is in front of you and even then it might not be enough. Doubtful in this case thankfully so the driver will hopefully be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
Click to expand...
Is there another side to the incident when a diver is drunk on the wrong side of the road? I appreciate you don’t like e-scooters; I am not 100% on them myself.
 
darrenyeats said:
Yes, I agree. I add there are some cyclists who remember this only when they're the little guy, and forget it when they're the big guy and pedestrians are the little guys. Again this a minority of cyclists but again an imbalance of harm and therefore more responsibility should be on the big guy (the bike in this case).

But there's no doubt that car drivers can do much more harm, whilst being protected from harm, no arguments they are - much - higher than bikes and pedestrians in the danger/responsibility tree.
Click to expand...
There is an established hierarchy. Pedestrians are the most vulnerable followed by cyclists & then horse riders. I don’t like shared paths for this reason, even when you have a walking lane & a cycle designation the two overlap. I’ve had pedestrians step across me on a cycle lane or wander in, I generally anticipate this & have yet to collide with anyone.

I can’t really speak for other cyclists who use such routes, I used to use the TPT quite a lot but random mix of pedestrians, dog walkers, horses & cyclists is very poor mix. Not aware of any major incidents though.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top