Lee T
pfm Member
Thankfully most will care little about the opinions of a couple of old has been "musicians" with 1 half decent album & a single between them.
Coronavirus - the new strain X
- Thread starter gavreid
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ks.234
Half way to Infinity
There was, and is, a need for kids to return to school, but it needed to be done safely, and the government line that schools were safe was not only a lie but negligent because outbreaks in schools was entirely predicable. The other lie was that teachers unions wanted to stop schools opening when again, they just wanted schools to open safely
Andrew C!
Been around a while....
I quite agree. However some on here would suggest otherwise...
Seanm
pfm Member
It’s really a question of coordination rather than people needing nannied. I can keep myself and my family safe easily enough - if I take them to a cabin in the woods with a year’s worth of supplies and my gun collection. Or if I’m retired with no real responsibilities.
If you live in society, and are dependent on work and public institutions, and have people who are dependent on you in complicated ways (e.g. my children are dependent on me; but also their classmates are dependent on my ability to balance my children’s needs against theirs, and not send them into school when they might be infected). Some of this is quite complicated, requiring the capacity of millions of people to pull in the same direction in sometimes counterintuitive ways, based on knowledge and expertise rather than common sense.
It’a also a question of resources. Who has the resources to coordinate action at scale? To generate and disseminate scientific knowledge? To support people economically so that they can balance their children’s interests with those of other people’s children? I’m afraid it’s the government. Sadly we don’t live in the kind of anarchistic, people-powered utopia that ex-cops such as yerself tend to crave. The capacity to co-ordinate social action on a national scale is concentrated at the top. Which is why, when those at the top abdicate their responsibility, or fail to discharge it due to their inveterate incompetence, we get the kind of disaster unfolding here, the US and Brazil in particular.
Tony L
Administrator
It also needs to be pointed out, again, that the virus hasn’t changed. It is the constant throughout this. The flailing shapeshifting mess is the government and its entirely incoherent messaging. All throughout this pandemic they have been on the back foot, they have blatantly lied, manipulated figures, made decisions based on prioritising contracts to friends and party donors rather than following the science or logic and spent the most effort trying to cover their tracks etc. If, as a second hand record dealer, I could figure this shit out by early Feb I’m really not in the mood to give our elected representatives too much latitude or excuses.
I’m not suggesting anything was easy here, especially balancing the economic factors, but the science was absolutely clear from day one and there is no justification whatsoever for lying to the population or changing messaging on a daily basis. We knew exactly what this was, we knew how it spread, we knew who it impacted the most, and we were several weeks behind other similar nations such as Italy who could be observed as test cases. We also had the almost unique advantage of being an island nation where basic input/output could be monitored and controlled unlike say Europe or huge multi-state nations like the USA. Conceptually we were not that much different to New Zealand, aside obviously from a huge gulf in political thinking and leadership ability.
I’m not suggesting anything was easy here, especially balancing the economic factors, but the science was absolutely clear from day one and there is no justification whatsoever for lying to the population or changing messaging on a daily basis. We knew exactly what this was, we knew how it spread, we knew who it impacted the most, and we were several weeks behind other similar nations such as Italy who could be observed as test cases. We also had the almost unique advantage of being an island nation where basic input/output could be monitored and controlled unlike say Europe or huge multi-state nations like the USA. Conceptually we were not that much different to New Zealand, aside obviously from a huge gulf in political thinking and leadership ability.
^ NZ is at the level of not only testing for Covid but also testing the genome sequencing of Covid.
Australia (or to be precise Melbourne) messed up but has recovered the situation now.
Countries as diverse as Canada and Singapore have also reduced cases dramatically.
Covid can be successfully contained but it all comes down to your last phrase: 'a huge gulf in politic thinking and leadership ability.'
Australia (or to be precise Melbourne) messed up but has recovered the situation now.
Countries as diverse as Canada and Singapore have also reduced cases dramatically.
Covid can be successfully contained but it all comes down to your last phrase: 'a huge gulf in politic thinking and leadership ability.'
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
The absolute need for a functioning testing system was obvious 6 months ago.
There is no excuse for the shambles of a system we have now. As has been said already, the shambles is down to prioritising private interests and the utter incompetence of those in charge.
There is no excuse for the shambles of a system we have now. As has been said already, the shambles is down to prioritising private interests and the utter incompetence of those in charge.
stephen bennett
Mr Enigma
Apparently, the Mail comments section published this list. Not sure if that’s true but the data is available openly.
₤252m to Ayanda Capital, registered in Mauritius for tax purposes. PPE not delivered.
₤186m to Uniserve. PPE not delivered.
₤116m to P14 Medical Supplies, with assets of just ₤145. PPE not delivered.
₤108m to PestFix, with just 16 employees. PPE not delivered.
₤107m to Clandeboye Agencies, a sweet wholesaler. Yes, a sweet wholesaler. PPE not delivered.
₤40m to Medicine Box Ltd, with assets of just ₤6000. PPE not delivered.
₤48m to Initia Ventures Ltd, which registered itself as dormant in March. PPE not delivered.
₤28m to Monarch Acoustics, which makes shop furniture. PPE not delivered.
₤25m to Luxe Lifestyle, which has no employees, no assets, and no turnover. PPE not delivered.
₤18m to Aventis Solutions, which has total assets of ₤332. Not a typo, 332. PPE not delivered.
₤10m to Medco Solutions, incorporated just 3 days after lockdown, with share capital of (not a typo) ₤2. PPE not delivered
In all, approx ₤1bn to inexplicable suppliers for PPE that hasn't been delivered.
What are the chances these companies have connections to the Conservatives?
But, Brexit ...
Stephen
₤252m to Ayanda Capital, registered in Mauritius for tax purposes. PPE not delivered.
₤186m to Uniserve. PPE not delivered.
₤116m to P14 Medical Supplies, with assets of just ₤145. PPE not delivered.
₤108m to PestFix, with just 16 employees. PPE not delivered.
₤107m to Clandeboye Agencies, a sweet wholesaler. Yes, a sweet wholesaler. PPE not delivered.
₤40m to Medicine Box Ltd, with assets of just ₤6000. PPE not delivered.
₤48m to Initia Ventures Ltd, which registered itself as dormant in March. PPE not delivered.
₤28m to Monarch Acoustics, which makes shop furniture. PPE not delivered.
₤25m to Luxe Lifestyle, which has no employees, no assets, and no turnover. PPE not delivered.
₤18m to Aventis Solutions, which has total assets of ₤332. Not a typo, 332. PPE not delivered.
₤10m to Medco Solutions, incorporated just 3 days after lockdown, with share capital of (not a typo) ₤2. PPE not delivered
In all, approx ₤1bn to inexplicable suppliers for PPE that hasn't been delivered.
What are the chances these companies have connections to the Conservatives?
But, Brexit ...
Stephen
gavreid
Pretty Words...
Trump talking openly about herd immunity - but he confuses it with herd mentality
US President Donald Trump said that Covid-19 would go away without a vaccine. This would happen because of “herd mentality,” he said in an ABC town hall. It is unclear whether he meant heard immunity, as he repeated the phrase several times.“It would go away without the vaccine George,” he said speaking to ABC journalist George Stephanopoulos. “With time it goes away. And you’ll develop like a herd mentality. It’s going to be herd developed, and that’s going to happen. That will all happen.”
US President Donald Trump said that Covid-19 would go away without a vaccine. This would happen because of “herd mentality,” he said in an ABC town hall. It is unclear whether he meant heard immunity, as he repeated the phrase several times.“It would go away without the vaccine George,” he said speaking to ABC journalist George Stephanopoulos. “With time it goes away. And you’ll develop like a herd mentality. It’s going to be herd developed, and that’s going to happen. That will all happen.”
thebigfredc
pfm Member
Seems a strange source but if true then this should go straight to a public inquiry.
gintonic
50 shades of grey pussy cats
The governance of these procurement processes is appallingly bad.
But I do wonder whether these contracts are paid up? When I order a 1000 desktop PCs or similar through procurement, our terms specify payment 30ish days after delivery. If no goods are delivered, then no payment made.
gavreid
Pretty Words...
That's a truism. However the lack of safety is clearer now than it was then, 1000s of heads have had to write to government and still blindly, kids and staff are at school, without proper access to testing, while cases are rising not diminishing - the central tenet of the Government guidance. Where's the plan B? What is Labour and the NEI doing to ensure that a plan B is drawn up and acted on? Why has there not been a single school flagged by the union as a safety concern? In the university sector students are being told porkies to get them to register and attend, to ensure the cash flows of the institutions now that they're entirely dependent upon private fees for their income.
stephen bennett
Mr Enigma
I picture Sean saying this to Johnson.
I’m sure he couldn’t be bothering with all that.
A bit of bluster, some unfounded personal insults and a three word slogan appear to be enough.
Stephen
stephen bennett
Mr Enigma
The information is available elsewhere, but I was also surprised it wasn’t censored by the Mail.
We do need to know if these monies were spent. But even if not, the effects of not getting PPE are, literally, deadly.
Stephen
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
The political atmosphere had already been created sadly.
Cummings had them adopting a strategy of abdication from the off (we follow the science, so expect to do well) when it was never remotely within their control. When inevitably things don’t work like that what happens?
They can’t admit to the aspects of science they chose being flawed, they can’t admit to their plans not working so they have to blame the people and punish them for not following their plan correctly. In this, they have the enthusiastic support of a newly groomed army of small minded and officious fans of authority. They love nothing more than curtain twitching and Johnson has rewarded this particularly nasty species (see Patel's Stasi like comments) with some kind of moral authority to help deflect from its own disastrous handling and corrupt use of public money rewarding Johnson/Cummings backers.
Public engagement, properly scrutinised understanding and evidence based decision making were key to even having a chance of managing such an awful event. Most of that never made the starting line.
tuga
Legal Alien
Isn't that Belgisch?
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Or the opposition asking questions?
gavreid
Pretty Words...
There's a good piece by Monbiot on that theme today
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...bellion-britain-democracy-protest-westminster
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Perhaps Starmer will start backing teachers now then?
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