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Coronavirus - the new strain X

Discussion in 'off topic' started by gavreid, Aug 11, 2020.

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  1. gavreid

    gavreid pfm Member

    or put the NHS up for grabs in trade talks with the Yanks.
    I'm amazed at what former Labour voters would prefer, turning to the most right wing version of the Tory party - certainly in living memory - over a straightforward social democrat.
     
  2. mandryka

    mandryka pfm Member

    That’s great, would you mind awfully posting some details, preferably a link so I can see the video.
     
    pjdowns likes this.
  3. pjdowns

    pjdowns Living the Hifi dream

    Oh I agree with the bit about the Cobra meetings, but we weren't discussing that. I can't for the life of me understand why BJ would have missed those.

    The saving of 20,000 lives is based on assumption, we honestly still don't know for sure that it would have made any difference and never will.

    We also don't know for sure that all of the people that were recorded as having died from C-19 actually died as a result of having it or it was just present in them and they died of something else. I remember watching an interview with family who said that there family member had died of a heart attack but it had been recorded as C-19.
     
  4. pjdowns

    pjdowns Living the Hifi dream

    Again people putting words in my mouth. I didn't vote for the Tories and never would!

    The Tories won't sell the NHS, they will however sensibly outsource elements of it. This is a good business move and will save money.
     
  5. mandryka

    mandryka pfm Member

    That’s great, again as in my post above a link would be appreciated, if you have it, I can see some things on Lewis Goodall’s twitter page, but nothing directly relevant to asymptomatic transmission etc apart from some informal comments (sort of like: “in my experience following this story from start of crisis there was actually a lot of concern about asymptomatic transmission in the care sector”)
     
  6. droodzilla

    droodzilla pfm Member

    Do you have a scientific background? If you do, you will understand just how deadly that 7-10 day delay in March was. It's not an assumption that it cost tens of thousands of lives; it's the only logical conclusion, based on the mathematics of exponential growth.

    Furthermore, just about every international comparison, on any measure you care to mention, is utterly damning of Boris Johnson's performance. That includes the excess mortality stats which Boris Johnson urged us to wait for, early on in the crisis. Funnily enough he no longer talks about them now they show the UK's performance is the worst in Europe.
     
    Ragaman and gavreid like this.
  7. pjdowns

    pjdowns Living the Hifi dream

    Your point?
     
  8. gavreid

    gavreid pfm Member

    I didn't say that you did - you've comfirmed my thoughts yourself.
     
  9. stephen bennett

    stephen bennett Mr Enigma

    I posted a link earlier to studies demonstrating the effect of locking down earlier. That's where the estimated 20K fewer deaths figure comes from.

    One always needs to choose between 'we'll never know' , political expediency and the best scientific evidence we have. I know where my instincts lie.

    I suspect we didn't lock down earlier because Dido Harding and Hancock wanted to keep their Jockey club mates happy and Johnson was AWOL.

    That and the Tories' natural inclinations.

    Stephen
     
  10. pjdowns

    pjdowns Living the Hifi dream

    What did I confirm?
     
  11. droodzilla

    droodzilla pfm Member

    I want to know if you understand the basic mathematics of exponential growth, which applies in the early stages of a pandemic. If you don't, you're not qualified to comment on the effect of delaying lockdown.

    As things stand, it's just your uninformed opinion against the mass of scientific evidence (and basic mathematical logic) that says tens of thousands of lives could have been saved if Boris Johnson had locked down earlier.
     
  12. gavreid

    gavreid pfm Member

    "...they will however sensibly outsource elements of it. This is a good business move and will save money."
     
  13. pjdowns

    pjdowns Living the Hifi dream

    Fair point and argument.

    You are right, we probably didn't lock down earlier enough, but it must have been an excruciating decision to be fair, because the lockdown itself has had a significant impact from a financial and economical perspective, but also for peoples mental health.
     
  14. pjdowns

    pjdowns Living the Hifi dream

    Actually, this is my point. 'could' have, not 'would' have!
     
  15. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    I really think you need to start taking responsibility for informing yourself about the things you have strong opinions on. People here have wasted a lot of time walking you through things and giving you links to well known and easily discoverable articles which you never refer to again. Can’t you Google? Don’t you read any of these articles as they come out? I just don’t understand how someone can be so committed to a topic while having had so much basic information pass them by.
     
    ff1d1l and gavreid like this.
  16. droodzilla

    droodzilla pfm Member

    Semantics. The maths and the scientific evidence is unambiguous on this point. What's your background? Are you a mathematician? A scientist? If you were, you wouldn't be wasting everyone's time arguing the toss about this.
     
  17. droodzilla

    droodzilla pfm Member

    Don't waste your time Sean. If it walks like a troll and talks like a troll, it's a troll.
     
    Ragaman, kendo, kensalriser and 2 others like this.
  18. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Well, I can dream, can’t I?

    I think what you meant to say was:

    "The Tories won't sell the NHS, because that would be political suicide; they will however outsource elements of it to their mates. This will enrich them significantly, but outsourcing rarely, if ever, saves public money in the long term, and often costs money in the short term."
     
  19. gavreid

    gavreid pfm Member

    Usually with outsourcing the aim is to employ people on substantially inferior contracts and profit from the difference. However, public sector conditions have already suffered to the extent that the discussion boils down to minimum wage vs a 'living wage' and of course nothing but rudimentary benefits. In practice, the management costs are ignored, which the public sector still has to absorb to oversee the people who are meant to be doing the job, thus the cost is always greater than the specification and the 'efficiency savings' are not made. Add to that the problem of the outsourcers playing the same game etc etc down the line, until the job is done by people who aren't at all qualified - as we are and have seeing with Serco et al. The Stetsuns and Smith & Wessons normally give the game away to those in the know, but the dewey eyed Tory voters seem to think you can play these games ad infinitum ;)
     
  20. mandryka

    mandryka pfm Member


    I'm sure you were telling the truth when you said that Lewis Goodall has some relevant work, and that Droodzilla was telling the truth about the video too. I wouldn't want anyone to think I was calling your integrity into question, or his.
     
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