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Reclocking USB signals - significant improvement !

On the contrary.

If the kiii is synchronous and not galvanically isolated then it's not fit for purpose. I think we all agree there.

If this is the case then the reclocker might do a thing.

If the kiii is asynchronous and isolated then the Phoenix adds nothing, and the listener is deluded.

Measurements will clearly show which is the case.
 
Fourlegs said:
Either the Innuos Phoenix reclocker makes no difference and in which case you are calling Innuos out as con artists or it does make a difference and to use your words again, the Kii DAC "is an utter sh!te design".

Are you just saying it needs to be investigated by measurements before you decide which of those is going to be your verdict?
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Hi,
Why not present your measurements (evidence) that these reclockers work ?

Surely, any manufacturer claiming that their product affects the sound of audio equipment would want to present such proof.

They (manufacturers) need to prove the positive (that reclockers work) before we can comment on their suitability. The onus is on those making the claims. All we need are the relevant measurements.

Regards,
Shadders.
 
Shadders said:
Hi,
I have designed my own DAC with a 500femto-second (rms) jitter clock. I have worked at research labs in the electronics design area (predominantly digital audio).

Regards,
Shadders.
Click to expand...

Can you please upload your qualification/s and CV otherwise you're just typing subjective words, no proof = ?
 
Shadders said:
Hi,
Why not present your measurements (evidence) that these reclockers work ?

Surely, any manufacturer claiming that their product affects the sound of audio equipment would want to present such proof.

They (manufacturers) need to prove the positive (that reclockers work) before we can comment on their suitability. The onus is on those making the claims. All we need are the relevant measurements.

Regards,
Shadders.
Click to expand...

I do not need to produce "measurements (evidence) that these reclockers work". I am merely a punter who will decide whether to cough up with my money or not as I see fit or as my ears tell me.

As AndyU has already said with his Dave, if I like it I will buy and it is no ones business apart from mine.

You on the other hand are making allegations that one or other of the products is flawed (either Kii 3 or Innuos Pheonix) so it is up to YOU and not me to back your allegations up with measurements.

If you want to make requests for measurements then I suggest you contact the manufacturers yourself.

You should probably keep a weather eye open for libel as well.
 
Shadders said:
Hi,
No. I want to remain reasonably anonymous. I don't care if you don't believe me.
Regards,
Shadders.
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So what gives you the right to call out the OP as being deluded? bit self-righteous don't you think?!

You have subjectively stated you are a qualified digital audio designer therefore know better than most PFM members.
 
AndyU said:
I It is the case that Paul Miller has measured big improvements in the jitter and noise performance of USB powered DACs when driven from servers like the Melco and Roon. Maybe the USB implementation of the Kii Control leaves something to be desired.
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Which USB transfer mode was used? Were these J-test results?
 
Fourlegs said:
I do not need to produce "measurements (evidence) that these reclockers work". I am merely a punter who will decide whether to cough up with my money or not as I see fit or as my ears tell me.

As AndrewU has already said with his Dave, if I like it I will buy and it is no ones business apart from mine.
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Hi,
I made no statement on what you should buy, or not. People can still discuss the relevance of reclockers.

Fourlegs said:
You on the other hand are making allegations that one or other of the products is flawed (either Kii 3 or Innuos Pheonix) so it is up to YOU and not me to back your allegations up with measurements.
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No, no allegation has been made against Kii Three. If you connect a digital source to a piece of audio equipment, and it affects the performance, then that piece of audio equipment is seriously flawed. I personally would want my piece of many £1,000's DAC to perform exactly the same whatever the digital source. I am paying a lot of money for it to do that.

You keep on trying to infer my statements are against a specific manufacturer because someone somewhere heard something.

Fourlegs said:
If you want to make requests for measurements then I suggest you contact the manufacturers yourself.
Click to expand...
Again, any claimed benefit must be presented with proof.

Fourlegs said:
You should probably keep a weather eye open for libel as well.
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You seem yet again claiming that i have made a claim against another specific party. I have not. It really is you who should be careful of libel.

Regards,
Shadders.
 
Shadders said:
No, no an allegation has been made against Kii Three. If you connect a digital source to a piece of audio equipment, and it affects the performance, that that piece of audio equipment is seriously flawed. I personally would want my piece of many £1,000's DAC to perform exactly the same whatever the digital source. I am paying a lot of money for it to do that.

You keep on trying to infer my statements are against a specific manufacturer because someone somewhere heard something.
Click to expand...

The reasonable of us on here are happy to take the OP's comments at face value that he thought he heard a big improvement (it is after all just a hobby and I assume he just went to the show for fun). And in the spirit of fun I have borrowed an Innuos Phoenix so I can have a listen but I can you for nothing that if I hear an improvement then the last thing I am going to do is to discuss it on here with you.

You have taken the OP's comments a big stage further and allege that if what the he says is true then in your opinion the Kii Three "is seriously flawed". You just repeated that again.

You have been asked whether you are a qualified digital audio designer to back up your opinion but you have refused to reveal any details so we must assume you do not have any qualifications. You ask for measurements but when Cereal asks you for something you say no.

And again, if YOU want measurements, YOU ask the manufacturers.

Lastly, please explain whom I might have inadvertently libeled and where and I will withdraw that statement.
 
Jim Audiomisc said:
Which USB transfer mode was used? Were these J-test results?
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Here is a link to the measurements for a Melco N10’s. You can see that in the case of the hub powered Chord Mojo and iFi Audio DSD there were large reductions in jitter and noise when using the Melco compared to the reviewers pc. They have tested other servers and the Project Audio endpoint with similar results. DACs with their own power supply seem to be less influenced. Not surprising really; whatever power comes out of the USB socket of a laptop is unlikely to be very clean, so using it to power a DAC is not likely to give the best possible results. Hence my speculating about the design of the Kii Control.

https://www.hifinews.com/content/melco-n10-n10pps10-network-audio-library-lab-report
 
Fourlegs said:
You have taken the OP's comments a big stage further and allege that if what the he says is true then in your opinion the Kii Three "is seriously flawed". You just repeated that again.
Click to expand...
Hi,
I have made no allegation about the Kii Three. You persist in inferring my statement about reclockers and any equipment it affects as being about Kii Three. It is not. The person reporting about their experience is just that, a report of experience, and NOT proof.

Fourlegs said:
You have been asked whether you are a qualified digital audio designer to back up your opinion but you have refused to reveal any details so we must assume you do not have any qualifications. You ask for measurements but when Cereal asks you for something you say no.
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I really don't care.

Fourlegs said:
And again, if YOU want measurements, YOU ask the manufacturers.
Click to expand...
The onus is upon the claimant to present proof that their product performs a function.

Fourlegs said:
Lastly, please explain whom I might have inadvertently libeled and where and I will withdraw that statement.
Click to expand...
Your persistent claim that i have made a claim against a specific manufacturers piece of equipment is libel. Read through the thread - i never stated anything about Kii Three claiming it was shite.

A person subjective experience is not proof - so cannot be used as proof of a subsequent statement.

I have stated that any design that is affected by a digital source connection is a disgracefully poor design, or sh!te design.

Regards,
Shadders.
 
Fourlegs said:
Lastly, please explain whom I might have inadvertently libeled and where and I will withdraw that statement.
Click to expand...

Early on in this thread you called people who were sceptical of your claims “know it all farts”. You also sneered at people who might not have sufficiently revealing ears or systems to come to the same conclusion as you. You surprised you get challenged?

Fourlegs said:
No, just pissed off with the know it all farts who in reality know rather less than they think they do.
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Shadders said:
I really don't care.


The onus is upon the claimant to present proof that their product performs a function.


.
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LOL - So......... you don't have to provide any proof to your statement but you want the OP to provide measurable proof to the natural subjective sense of aural differentials ...

You sir are full of it...... are you for real?!

You like digging a hole?
 
Cereal Killer said:
LOL - So......... you don't have to provide any proof to your statement but you want the OP to provide measurable proof to the natural sense of hearing...

You full of it, sorry but are you for real?
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Hi,
If you read the thread, i have stated that the manufacturer has to provide evidence, or proof, or measurements of their claimed benefit. Nothing about the original poster.

Regards,
Shadders.
 
AndyU said:
Early on in this thread you called people who were sceptical of your claims “know it all farts”. You also sneered at people who might not have sufficiently revealing ears or systems to come to the same conclusion as you. You surprised you get challenged?
Click to expand...

I'm still pissed off with know it all farts who in reality know rather less than they think they do but that is just a general observation on life and not targeted at any one person. Happy now?
 
Shadders said:
Hi,
If you read the thread, i have stated that the manufacturer has to provide evidence, or proof, or measurements of their claimed benefit. Nothing about the original poster.

Regards,
Shadders.
Click to expand...

Ask the manufacturer then!
 
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