Winter election III

[Rockmeister]

If tactical was the way I had to go... this was an SNP seat until the 15 election when the cons swept it (it's strongly remain here too). No-one but the (idiot, self interested) SNP candidate has any chance of kicking them out, and snp is a certain vote that isn't right wing. In effect however, no vote or spoilt paper are also certain not to be con votes. However, for me it's all about making myself feel like I'm trying to do what's best for the people less fortunate than me, so I'll vote that way (labour) irrespective of the fact that there is not one chance in hell that labour will be elected here.

I fall asleep to dream...


Next time I'll be standing as a Green candidate. At least I can vote for me and do something positive for the world.

 

[glancaster]

Also look at the worst economic mistakes by UK chancellors since the war:

1. Recession and long tail unemployment of the 1980s caused by 1981 Budget (TORIES).
2. "Black Monday" caused by misguided attempts pegging £ to DM (TORIES).
3. Austerity leading to 10 years of loss of trend growth (TORIES).

Note anyone tempted to reply with any combination of Gordon Brown, selling and gold please please accept an F and see me after class.

1. The only UK recession in the 1980s was from 1980 Q1 to 1981 Q1. The 1981 Budget, delivered on 10 March 1981, could not have caused it. The timings mean it is more conceivable that it ended it.
2. You are thinking of 'Black Wednesday'. This happened in 1992. The only UK recession in the 1990s was from 1990 Q3 to 1991 Q3. So, Black Wednesday could not have caused that one.
3. A significant contributory cause of the problems of the last 10 years was the biggest recession since the 1930s (the 'Great Recession', 2008 Q2 - 2009 Q2) that immediately preceded this period, during which time Labour were in power.

Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions_in_the_United_Kingdom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Wednesday

Kind regards

- Garry

 

[35451]

Also look at the worst economic mistakes by UK chancellors since the war:

1. Recession and long tail unemployment of the 1980s caused by 1981 Budget (TORIES).
2. "Black Monday" caused by misguided attempts pegging £ to DM (TORIES).
3. Austerity leading to 10 years of loss of trend growth (TORIES).

Note anyone tempted to reply with any combination of Gordon Brown, selling and gold please please accept an F and see me after class.

lol. Consider:

1. Crisis? What crisis? 70s - 30% inflation, wage freezes, IMF intervention etc
2. PFI - started by Major, extended to NHS by Brown - £300bn estd cost to 2020
3. ACT - Brown est'd £5bn a year and a nail in the coffin of the public and private sector final salary pensions.

 

[sean99]

Quick question please: what do people here think of tactical.vote as a guide to tactical voting? They claim to have been the most accurate in 2017 and got my constituency right when others got it wrong. Any one else have experience?

They have a tool show to the recommendations of all of the tactical voting websites https://tactical.vote/compare

They seem very honest about my former constituency (South Cambridgeshire). It's a real pity that Labour and the Lib Dems didn't do a non-compete deal in that constituency because together they really could unseat the Tories - divided they might allow the Tories to win it.

 

[cooky1257]

They are mainstream economic practices in most of Europe. The spending plans would put the UK in about the middle of the European table, in terms of state spending as share of GDP - just below France, IIRC. They have the support of a great many mainstream economists. Meanwhile there's a consensus amongst mainstream economists that the Conservative Party's austerity program was and is totally bats__t. Have a look:

'Labour has received the firm backing of 163 prominent economists who say the party understands the nation’s deep-seated problems and has devised a “serious programme” for dealing with them.

In a letter published in the Financial Times, the group said Labour’s plans to invest in homes, schools and infrastructure make “basic economic sense”, partly because borrowing costs are at a historic low.

They called for a Labour government to urgently reform Britain’s economy which has, for too long, prioritised consumption over investment, short-term financial returns over long-term innovation, rising asset values over rising wages, and deficit reduction over the quality of public services.

The group, which includes professor David Blanchflower, a former member of the Bank of England’s Monetary Policy Committee, and Victoria Chick, emeritus professor of economics at University College London, savaged the record of the Conservative and coalition governments.

“We have had 10 years of near-zero productivity growth,” they wrote.

“Corporate investment has stagnated. Average earnings are still lower than in 2008. A gulf has arisen between London and the South East and the rest of the country. And public services are under intolerable strain – which the economic costs of a hard Brexit would only make worse.”'

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...y-spending-corbyn-boris-johnson-a9218041.html
​

If you don't like Corbyn and Labour fair enough. But the economic argument for preferring the Conservatives over Labour is without any merit whatsoever. Voting Conservative in this election is like voting for Brexit: it's a values-based decision rather than an economically rational one. Which again is absolutely fair enough. Except that the values here are very explicitly racism, xenophobia, authoritarianism, mendacity.

​

Sean mate why do you bother trying to explain to these far right ideologues? Save your energy.

 

[HairyHaggis]

 

[doctorf]

Sean mate why do you bother trying to explain to these far right ideologues? Save your energy.

Because some of us may read and learn, as opposed to the Marxists on here who do neither.

 

[HairyHaggis]

i had my one and only campaigner at the door last night, a certain amy callaghan (of that ilk). told her she was too late, my postal vote was already in. but i cheered her up when i told her who i'd voted for. my fingers are crossed for you good people south of the border...

 

[Fatmarley]

What's the most reliable fact checking site?

 

[TheDecameron]

The disturbing thing I’ve picked up on the BBC over the past couple of days is the sheer number of people ( Wakefield today) who’ve said “yer, I’ve voted Labour all me life but ‘am votin Boris. He’s going to get Brexit dun. Don’t like him mind”. We get to find out if the Cummings anti-Labour strategy has worked. In Scotland they’ve gone for a different single issue- “vote Conservative to stop Independence”. It’s going to save a couple of Tory skins.

 

[gavreid]

lol. Consider:

1. Crisis? What crisis? 70s - 30% inflation, wage freezes, IMF intervention etc
2. PFI - started by Major, extended to NHS by Brown - £300bn estd cost to 2020
3. ACT - Brown est'd £5bn a year and a nail in the coffin of the public and private sector final salary pensions.

The run on the pound was not caused by Wilson's government, Tories in the City have admitted to acting unlawfully to undermine the Labour government - they organised an "investment strike" and by 1976 investment was half what it was in 1974. The Financial Times even discussed the anti-government campaign openly. It was the social contract that killed the Labour government, not Thatcher

 

[cooky1257]

Because some of us may read and learn, as opposed to the Marxists on here who do neither.

I take it you are happy to be described as a far right ideologue and have changed your name to Sean.

 

[TheDecameron]

We're all doomed.
Or we will be by this time on Friday.

Take your mind off it. Stay in and peruse some titsiano,



There’s going to be a feast at the National Gallery of Scotland next year.

 

[TheDecameron]

The run on the pound was not caused by Wilson's government, Tories in the City have admitted to acting unlawfully to undermine the Labour government - they organised an "investment strike" and by 1976 investment was half what it was in 1974. The Financial Times discussed the anti-government campaign. It was the social contract that killed the Labour government, not Thatcher

There was an old buffer on one of the leader debates who said “I’m not voting Labour, I’m old enough to remember the 70s, the power cuts and the three day week” until the anchor, Sarah Smith said “ that was Edward Heath and the Conservatives”.

 

[matthewr]

1. The only UK recession in the 1980s was from 1980 Q1 to 1981 Q1. The 1981 Budget, delivered on 10 March 1981, could not have caused it. The timings mean it is more conceivable that it ended it.
2. You are thinking of 'Black Wednesday'. This happened in 1992. The only UK recession in the 1990s was from 1990 Q3 to 1991 Q3. So, Black Wednesday could not have caused that one.
3. A significant contributory cause of the problems of the last 10 years was the biggest recession since the 1930s (the 'Great Recession', 2008 Q2 - 2009 Q2) that immediately preceded this period, during which time Labour were in power.

Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions_in_the_United_Kingdom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Wednesday

Kind regards

- Garry

Sorry I wrote quickly while at work.

The point about the 1981 budget was that it raised taxes in the middle of a recession in direct contradiction to well established economic theory. This delayed the recovery by about 18 months causing massive hardship and all the long tail unemployment in the 1980s, hysteresis effects, etc. The government was even famously warned about this *ahead of time* by a letter to The Times signed by 384 economists.

This failed economic management continued later in the late 80s when Lawson cut taxes in a massive boom and increased inflation. This led to the recession of the early 90s at which point the Conservative government took it's disastrous decision on the rate at which to join the ERM leading to the events of Black Wednesday.

As regards The Great Recession, I am talking not about the recession but about the recovery. Specifically, the normal v-shaped recovery was underway following Brown and Darling's response. This was cut off by Osborne and his Austerity policy when, like in 1981, they raised taxes at the worst possible time and, proably permanently, reduced the size of our economy. Again they were warned about this ahead of time and evidence of the damage they did is right there in the data.

Note in these cases we are talking about policy decisions of the government. Things they chose to do, not the effects of the economy over which any government has only limited control.

 

[gavreid]

There was an old buffer on one of the leader debates who said “I’m not voting Labour, I’m old enough to remember the 70s, the power cuts and the three day week” until the anchor, Sarah Smith said “ that was Edward Heath and the Conservatives”.

This is an important quote from Wilson during his 1960s government after a meeting with the governor of the BoE

“Not for the first time, I said that we had now reached the situation where a newly elected government—with a mandate from the people—was being told by international speculators that the policies on which we had fought the election could not be implemented, that the government was to be forced into the adoption of Tory policies to which it was fundamentally opposed.

“The governor confirmed that this was in fact the case.”

 

[Woodface]

Sorry I wrote quickly while at work.

The point about the 1981 budget was that it raised taxes in the middle of a recession in direct contradiction to well established economic theory. This delayed the recovery by about 18 months causing massive hardship and all the long tail unemployment in the 1980s, hysteresis effects, etc. The government was even famously warned about this *ahead of time* by a letter to The Times signed by 384 economists.

This failed economic management continued later in the late 80s when Lawson cut taxes in a massive boom and increased inflation. This led to the recession of the early 90s at which point the Conservative government took it's disastrous decision on the rate at which to join the ERM leading to the events of Black Wednesday.

As regards The Great Recession, I am talking not about the recession but about the recovery. Specifically, the normal v-shaped recovery was underway following Brown and Darling's response. This was cut off by Osborne and his Austerity policy when, like in 1981, they raised taxes at the worst possible time and, proably permanently, reduced the size of our economy. Again they were warned about this ahead of time and evidence of the damage they did is right there in the data.

Note in these cases we are talking about policy decisions of the government. Things they chose to do, not the effects of the economy over which any government has only limited control.

Recession is a technical term based upon contraction in two quarters. It is eminently possible to have rising unemployment & not be in recession. This is of scant consolation to those who lose their jobs.

The 80s was a turbulent time where the economy shifted to service based roles rather than manufacturing; lower wages etc. Obviously there were winners & losers. Fair to say Thatcher did for the traditional working classes; they have never really recovered.

 

[Arkless Electronics]

Much more effort needs to be expended in making it as unacceptable to express pro BloJo and pro Fartrage views as it would be to repeatedly shout the "N word" at a football match or to arrange a KKK march through Brixton!!
It IS that unacceptable and abhorrent!

 

[ks.234]

Because some of us may read and learn, as opposed to the Marxists on here who do neither.

That’s very marxistist

 

[35451]

According to the Guardian, of the 5 worst economic disasters of last 100 years, Labour inaugurated 3 out 5 of them.

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...onomic-disasters-20th-century-black-wednesday

Stagflation was first brought to UK under Labour stewardship.

Callaghan/ Healy partnership to conference:
"We used to think that you could spend your way out of a recession and increase employment by cutting taxes and boosting government spending. I tell you in all candour that that option no longer exists, and in so far as it ever did exist, it only worked on each occasion since the war by injecting a bigger dose of inflation into the economy, followed by a higher level of unemployment as the next step."

Hardly a blemish-free record by Labour Chancellors of the Exchequers.